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| Author |
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| 25 new of 221 responses total. |
dbratman
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response 142 of 221:
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Feb 18 21:35 UTC 2000 |
I sat through "Das Rheingold" with pleasure, but I think I'd rather
have teeth pulled than listen to "Tristan und Isolde".
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mcnally
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response 143 of 221:
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Feb 18 21:50 UTC 2000 |
Opera Grand Rapids' production of "Don Giovanni" was pretty enjoyable.
The acting was unexceptional, but the female leads sang well (in what
seemed, to me at least, to be fairly demanding parts) and everything
else was pretty competently handled. (Although the special effects
for Don Giovanni's abduction to Hell were less dramatic, and more cheesy,
than I would've liked)
Overall the production failed to thrill me, but I suspect that's
Mozart's fault, or mine. I've seen three of his operas (Marriage of
Figaro, Magic Flute, and Don Giovanni) and haven't been swept away by
the music in any of them.
One of the things that I thought was interesting about the opera was
how strikingly different the vocal parts are for the men and women --
much of the men's dialog is almost spoken but the women are always
trilling away into song..
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krj
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response 144 of 221:
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Apr 20 03:30 UTC 2000 |
My, I am behind.
The last two weeks have been swallowed up in a haze of THE MIKADO.
This was, as most of you know, the spring production of the University of
Michigan Gilbert & Sullivan Society, and I saw the show five times,
beginning with the dress rehearsal two weeks ago. And the music
has filled my head and driven out everything else since then, so I have
not played a CD for two weeks. I suppose I should learn all the songs,
so I could sing them for my own entertainment in my artless way.
I've been trying for two weeks to think of something intelligible
to write about the show, and I haven't come up with much. As for the
production, I think UMGASS really nailed it. But then I'm prejudiced,
as Leslie sang the part of Katisha, the elderly lady who the hero Nanki-Poo
would rather not marry; and I helped drag in the set, tear down the set,
and generally got lots of peeks into the backstage part of the show.
One moment which I particularly loved is the contrast between the
entrance of the women's chorus, which is written as a lovely serious
number, and the entrance of Yum-Yum and the rest of the Three Little
Maids, which seems straight out of vaudeville. I'm not quite sure how
to characterize those harmonies, almost barber-shop-like.
Anyway, it's been a fun two weeks, but it's probably time to get my head
out of the MIKADO clouds. There's a pile of other CDs here to listen
to, and we have tickets for ROSENKAVALIER this weekend at the Michigan
Opera Theatre, so I should start doing a little studying for that.
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davel
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response 145 of 221:
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Apr 21 01:23 UTC 2000 |
It was a really good production - up to UMGASS's normal high standards.
(We only saw one performance, Sunday matinee.) (I did not recognize
Leslie, whom I think I met once or twice quite a while back, or the
reference to krj in her section of the program notes on the cast.)
Pooh-bah was played especially well, but everyone did well. There were
times when we wondered if Ko-ko had a touch of laryngitis, but other
times he sounded fine. The bit of business he & Leslie did with "Ah,
shrink not from me" was particularly good - more extreme than I've seen
it done before.
We used to see all the UMGASS productions. When the kids were younger,
we saw none. Now all four of us are really enjoying getting back to
them.
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davel
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response 146 of 221:
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Apr 27 20:20 UTC 2000 |
BTW, there was one BIG improvement (relating specifically to Katisha) over
the last UMGASS Mikado we saw. (Remember, there was over a decade's hiatus
in this.) In that Mikado, Katisha was not merely elderly & ugly, but
portrayed as almost demonic - sort of like what Walt Disney did to the wicked
queen in Snow White. Bleah. In the production this month, Katisha was well
done in something more like the part given in the opera.
Personally, I get a bit tired of the endless stream of elderly-old-maid jokes
in Gilbert's librettos. More than a bit. But in any one play, when it's well
done (as this one was), I enjoy it fine. (My standard for doing this well
is an old UMGASS production of Pirates - the one that was released as a
phonograph record. Pretty much everything was especially well done that
year.)
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md
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response 147 of 221:
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Apr 28 12:30 UTC 2000 |
I once wrote a little poem about American Savoyards.
(Present company excluded, just having fun, etc.)
If you're anxious for to shine in an operettic line
In a manner tried and true,
Just appeal to every ass in the British middle class
And the Yanks will fall for you.
Though your doggerel be sorry and your politics be Tory
And your tunes no joy impart,
Still, your fan across the sea will imagine you must be
The very flower of British art.
And all his friends will say as he goes his dippy way,
"If he's mad about those vulgar Brits who seem so dull to *me*,
Why, what a very shallow sort of anglophile
That shallow sort of anglophile must be.
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mcnally
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response 148 of 221:
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Apr 29 17:30 UTC 2000 |
Savoyards? Meaning's clear from context, but it's mildly appalling
there's even a word for that..
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md
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response 149 of 221:
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Apr 30 11:22 UTC 2000 |
"G&S cult members," as I understand it.
I've been mildly irritated all my life by the various
dentists, proctologists, boutique-owners, etc., who
consider themselves enlightened liberal humanists and
in the same breath claim to be mad about G&S. G&S's
19th c. audience consisted mainly of middle-class British
philistines -- he same stateside dentists and shopkeepers
who dote on their D'Oyly Carte LPs today -- a fact of
which the boys themselves were well aware. Gilbert
himself referred to his lyrics as "doggerel."
Flanders and Swan did it so much better:
"I've been a little maid from school
Since I was just a tiny tot."
"With Jack Point's gags I've played the fool
Till I'm the only point they've got."
"I've toured through all the English-speaking nations
And can no longer play my part in Patience."
For one man in his time
Plays the same old part...
Can you wonder then that I'm
A little tired of D'Oyly Carte?
Three little Savoyards are we, tra-la-la-la, tra-la-la-la,
Started in 1893, tra-la-la-la-la-la.
With Gilbert and Sullivan we've toured from dump to dump, tra-la-la-la
And Sullivan and Gilbert can take a running jump
(From year to year and dump to dump
Can go and take a running jump).
Three little Savoyards are we, tra-la-la-la, tra-la-la-la,
Started in 1893, tra-la-la-la-la-la.
"Dear little town of Nanki-Poo"
(Smile, turn, pace to the right),
"Canst thou believe my heart is true?"
(Terrible house tonight!)
"One that with tender passion fired"
(Turn, pace, hand over heart)...
Woe to the day that we were hired
By D'Oyly Carte!
Why is it so admired,
This business first inspired
By former artists long retired
From D'Oyly Carte?
Anything new is disallowed
(Turn, pace, wait for the pause);
Blasphemous change would shock the crowd
Following in their scores!
Novel approach is not required
(Bounce, out of the part);
We've done our best,
But we need a rest
From D'Oyly Carte.
But the copyright's expiring in a year or two, no more,
And then at last we'll have the chance to settle this old score.
We'll buy back Covent Garden, and have the operas rewritten
With new words by J.B. Priestley and new tunes by Benjy Britten.
Till the end of this light operatic coma,
We're going off to sing in "Oklahoma"!
Tra-la-la-la-la-la!
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dbratman
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response 150 of 221:
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May 8 23:51 UTC 2000 |
md claims to be irritated by people who claim to be liberal humanists
but who like Gilbert and Sullivan. Being one myself, I think I can
explain.
No hypocrisy is involved.
You're not being asked to _vote_ for Gilbert, you know.
That's beside the fact that Gilbert satirized everything he could get
his hands on, and you really can't determine all his views from his
work. Once, when complimented for the opinion expressed in a song, he
said, "The views are not mine. They are those of the wrong-headed
donkey who sings them."
I'm more puzzled by the outbreak of G&S-bashing above. Nobody's
forcing you to listen to this, are they?
That Flanders and Swann song, btw, is directed specifically at the
D'Oyly Carte Company, which, especially in the 1950s, was notorious for
its extremely sterile productions. American productions (the copyright
had already expired here) were much livelier and much better.
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mcnally
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response 151 of 221:
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May 9 00:11 UTC 2000 |
Well, just so md won't feel lonely you can add me to the list of people
who (a) don't much enjoy G&S, and (b) think that many people who profess
to like it do so for reasons which are not particularly related to its
musical or theatrical merits.
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md
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response 152 of 221:
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May 9 00:46 UTC 2000 |
Well, not forced to listen, exactly, but I have
been played The Mikado as if I were being educated
in the finer things in life. That, and the
presumption that my reluctance can only mean that
I've come from listening to Bob Seger, rather than
Pelleas et Melisande, irritates me more than G&S's
words and music. You might never learn what I was
listening to -- or if you do, it won't be from my
mouth -- but I do reserve the right to have a little
private fun in verse.
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davel
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response 153 of 221:
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May 9 00:57 UTC 2000 |
Hmm. I meant to respond to this, too, & never got around to it.
I'm not a Savoyard, but I like G&S really well, both words & music. (But I'd
put the words first.) There are plenty of things that I think are wrong with
Gilbert's lyrics - including one whole opera, pretty much - but on the whole
I judge them to be clever, well-written, & often to the point. (On this last,
let me hasten to add that I'm not one of those md specifically referred to,
so I don't personally have to worry about being accused of hypocrisy.)
If you're going to judge G&S according to the social ideas embodied, it's only
fair to be just as hard on grand opera - which (somehow) people who criticize
G&S on this particular point normally aren't, somehow.
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md
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response 154 of 221:
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May 9 11:04 UTC 2000 |
Can great light opera, or great art of any kind,
be cruel, racist, fascist, whatever? I think the
answer is yes, absolutely, whether we like that
fact or not. What Auden said, regarding literature:
"Time, that is intolerant Of the brave and innocent,
And indifferent in a week To a beautiful physique,
Worships language and forgives Everyone by whom it
lives, Pardons cowardice, conceit, Lays it honors at
their feet. Time, that with this strange excuse,
Pardoned Kipling and his views, And will pardon Paul
Claudel, Pardons them for writing well." G&S can be
anything they like, for all I care, so long as the
art is good. They do have a witty lyric here, a
hummable tune there. I'm not anti-G&S by any means.
(I know I must sound like one of those people who say
you can like something but you have to like it for
the right reasons [ie, my reasons]. Don't mean to.)
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rcurl
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response 155 of 221:
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May 9 19:04 UTC 2000 |
I agree with Auden. What were the contemporary faults of G and/or S, or of
any artists whose lives and times are now long gone, are all irrelevant
today, except as instructive history.
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dbratman
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response 156 of 221:
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May 9 20:06 UTC 2000 |
md may well be right about the bulk of G&S aficionados: having spent
much time in their company, I've noticed that it appears that many of
them are not musical in any other respect. What those individuals see
in G&S is not at all clear to me.
As for _The Mikado_ being presented as if it were one of the finer
things in life ... it is, it is. But if you can't name of the top of
your head half a dozen "finer things" that you have no taste for, then
your sense of discrimination is highly undeveloped.
I don't much like most high opera myself: the only operas I've ever
fully enjoyed are "The Barber of Seville", "Carmen", several Mozart
comedies, and (odd one out in this bunch) "Das Rheingold". (Yes, I
have heard the entirety of the Ring.) Not surprisingly, in view of the
bulk of that list, the part of my brain that's wiggled by G&S is the
same part that's wiggled by musical comedy of the Broadway variety, and
that's where I keep it in my head, though with notation for Sullivan's
infinite superiority as composer and especially as arranger over most
Broadway musicians, and for Gilbert's very different style as lyricist.
As for offensiveness ... if I only allowed myself to listen to vocal
music with which I agreed with every sentiment, my CD collection would
be tiny indeed. Wagner was a monster, but he's dead: he won't be
earning any royalties when I go to hear Rheingold. If I like the
music, and can ignore the words, I'll listen to it.
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md
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response 157 of 221:
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May 9 23:09 UTC 2000 |
Offensiveness of the lyrics isn't an issue for me
personally. I think what you're hearing in me is
ego being offended by the cultish American Savoyards
you mention who assume I don't respond to G&S because
I can't elevate my taste, when the truth - unknown to
them and untellable by me - is that I can't lower it.
There's also the uncomfortable spot this puts me in of
feeling less than the Whitmanesque democrat I know in
my heart I am. But it's all in a good cause, I guess:
not being like *them*. ;-) Anyway, I have the utmost
respect for the sentiments expressed in #156, even
though I now have "The Moon and I" going through my head
on an endless loop.
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dbratman
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response 158 of 221:
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May 11 16:19 UTC 2000 |
md: Well, it's a common problem of cultists of various kinds that they
refuse to believe that others don't share their tastes. I'm still
annoyed at the guy who, maybe ten years ago, refused to believe my
reaction to a jazz masterpiece recording that was played in our
presence. My reaction was, "Like 99% of jazz, that did nothing for me
whatever." He apparently thought I was only _pretending_ not to like
it because I was a classical snob.
I can think of a couple things about G&S that might be relevant.
First, these works are operettas rather than operas, and if your taste
runs to through-composed operas I can see why you might find such
choppy, jaunty works beneath you. (For my part, I dislike almost every
_non_-G&S operetta I've heard, because I find them schmaltzy, which G&S
never is. Also, their books and lyrics are pathetic next to
Gilbert's. Many Savoyards are incredulous that I don't love "The Merry
Widow" or "Die Fledermaus".)
Second, there are many, many bad performances of G&S out there, often
by the same companies that put out good ones. The Stanford Savoyards
just put on the second best "Iolanthe" of my experience. This is the
same company which, a few years ago, did a "Pirates" in which not only
did the pirates mill around like a bunch of dispirited lugs, but when
the Pirate King, during his solo song, leapt across the stage onto a
(fake plastic) rock, it _slid out from under him_.
So there is a possibility that you've only seen bad performances, or
that the bad ones spoiled you for the good ones. But there's no way to
prove this experimentally, so it's just a suggestion.
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rcurl
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response 159 of 221:
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May 11 16:23 UTC 2000 |
I like both G&S - and Die Fledermaus (and almost all other opera). They
have different virtues. However I'm with dbratman on jazz - I keep
wondering why people are so gaga about it. A jazz afficianado once
explained the harmonic progression that defines jazz, but I for some
reason can't hear it.
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brighn
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response 160 of 221:
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May 11 19:02 UTC 2000 |
jazz is ok as background music =}
I have my own things about which I'm cult-like, mostly fringe rock music that
few people empathize with, I think everyone's cult-like about something.
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rcurl
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response 161 of 221:
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May 11 22:53 UTC 2000 |
I go for bats - one reason I like Die Fledermaus.
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davel
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response 162 of 221:
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May 12 14:46 UTC 2000 |
I grew up seeing G&S performed by the 8th grade at our local high school, one
per year for around a decade. What they lack in trained musicians such
performances often make up in enthusiasm. And Gilbert's humor is often at
just about an 8th-grade level. 8-{)]
For that matter, I was in Yeoman in 8th grade - so I didn't *see* that one.
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krj
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response 163 of 221:
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May 13 19:58 UTC 2000 |
Way back in resp:140, resp:142 :: too bad I've not said anything before
now about Wagner's TRISTAN & ISOLDE, which we saw in Chicago back in February.
David Bratman wrote "I think I'd rather have teeth pulled," and I can't figure
out why, unless it's the opera's length. Unfortunately we only got half of
the current great Tristan & Isolde: Ben Heppner wasn't schedule for this
performance, just Jane Eaglen.
After these months it's hard to think of anything to say about the music:
the production held together quite well and the second act, which has
the big love duet, was a wonderful example of the the set machinery
being used to underscore the story, as everything outside of the little
world of the two lovers slides away and disappears. Oh, and Isolde's
maidservant standing watch atop the steel cube...
What was it some critic wrote? TRISTAN is where the symphony entered
the opera, or something like that. It's quite different than the
Italian opera tradition; arias don't really start or stop as
distinct pieces, but there's just this big river of music moving along.
----------
And back in April there was Richard Strauss' DER ROSENKAVALIER at
Michigan Opera Theatre. Strauss is a problem composer for me, being
a 20th Century guy and all that, though I can see where he's pretty
much following on from Wagner. The story didn't make a whole lot of
sense to me until Leslie pointed out that it's an homage to Mozart,
with Octavian reprising Cherubino (the mezzo singing the role of a
boy first discovering sex) and Baron Ochs as a caricature of
Don Giovanni.
It was fun seeing Helen Donath in the role of The Marschallin, since
we got to chat with her at length after a MOT gala.
Still behind: last Saturday we saw LA BOHEME in Baltimore, and tonight
is TOSCA. But for now, back to your regularly scheduled
Gilbert & Sullivan bashing. :)
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omni
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response 164 of 221:
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May 15 07:14 UTC 2000 |
I'm a liberal and I adore Gilbert & Sullivan. I also have no idea of what
a Savoyard is. I also like Die Fledermaus, maybe because I, too am batty. ;)
I love all things British except Gentleman's Relish, which is comprised
mostly of anchovies. Wait. Let's not go into the food thing.
There probably is no hope of me ever being refined. I own a copy of The
Mikado, and HMS Pinafore. I can sing the Captain's song. I'm learning Sir
Joseph's song. I collect stamps with the First Frump (the Queen) on them.
Pass me a warm beer.
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davel
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response 165 of 221:
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May 15 14:26 UTC 2000 |
I don't think you qualify as a Savoyard unless you at least have a copy of
the libretto for Utopia, Ltd. as well, Jim. You don't qualify, yet.
(Maybe you have to be able to sing a couple of songs from either Utopia or
Grand Duke, as well. I'm not sure.)
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md
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response 166 of 221:
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May 16 01:08 UTC 2000 |
I have a 19th c edition of the Bab Ballads. Does that
qualify me?
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