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Grex > Jelly > #70: Microsoft rolls out "Vista" |  |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 203 responses total. |
cyklone
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response 141 of 203:
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Feb 17 14:03 UTC 2007 |
"More pleasant" being a subjective term that, as you define it, would not
apply to the vast majority of computer users.
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johnnie
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response 142 of 203:
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Feb 17 15:16 UTC 2007 |
Well, the setting-it-up part is no doubt a big PITA, but the end result
is likely pleasing, particularly if the ultimate user is concerned about
the simple things (such as email and word-processing).
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keesan
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response 143 of 203:
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Feb 17 15:42 UTC 2007 |
I enjoy learning to set it up and I hate GUIS. I just figured out how to set
up 38MB of linux with three browsers, and kermit and a few other useful things
which includes X and a window manager and email and text editor.....
for someone who only wants to use it for browsing and email. Her ex husband
liked what I set up for him. She also wants Office Suite which is no fun at
all to set up and wants 121MB typical (Office 97) plus the 150MB of minimal
Win98.
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cross
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response 144 of 203:
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Feb 18 00:58 UTC 2007 |
You're free to hate whatever you want. My concern is that, when you set
someone up with some recycled computer, that you inject your own biases and
potentially prevent them from doing useful stuff in a way that's compatible
with the mainstream. Certainly, installing Windows 98 on someone's computer
isn't a good idea; it's ridiuled with security problems. You'd be better off
figuring out how to install Ubuntu or something lik ethat.
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keesan
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response 145 of 203:
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Feb 18 01:20 UTC 2007 |
Why is Ubuntu better than Slackware? Win98 is only to run WORD on (not all
of Office Suite, I was told. She just can't tell them apart). Linux for
internet. With Opera. No Shockwave Flash or noises. Good for email.
I am setting it up to go into X directly, with a menu.
Ubuntu does not work well on old hardware. It could not even find our modem
or sound card, and it wastes most of the memory on unneeded daemons and boots
slowly and runs slowly.
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cross
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response 146 of 203:
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Feb 18 01:35 UTC 2007 |
Ubuntu is easy for non-experts to use, in addition to experts.
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keesan
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response 147 of 203:
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Feb 18 03:04 UTC 2007 |
What I set up is extremely easy to use. Ctrl-ESC or mouse for a menu, or type
m for a menu, then type the first letter of the program or use a mouse if you
prefer or type the whole program out. Looks something like Windows but much
faster and does not crash. Customized.
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maus
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response 148 of 203:
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Feb 18 05:53 UTC 2007 |
Let me rephrase what Cross was saying: Ubuntu is easy for non-experts
*OUT OF THE BOX*. It does not require expertise to set up, it does not
require expertise to maintain, it provides a clear upgrade path and a
straightforward source of application software. I would say that all of
the above is doubly true for SLED/OpenSuse (though Ubuntu seems to be a
little bit faster). Ditto RHEL/CentOS. Even bog-standard Slackware is
appropriate, as it is a common, well-known and supported environment.
The skills learned on these mainstream systems are more portable and
more useful outside the network of you and your friends. People learn to
use tools that implement and expose standard interfaces, and learn to do
things in ways that are valuable elsewhere. Yes there is value in
learning how to do things with minimal tools, but it puts into place a
barrier to use that reinforces the notion that Linux/UNIX is
unnecessarily hard.
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twenex
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response 149 of 203:
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Feb 18 13:21 UTC 2007 |
Jeff was just about to ask Sindi why she favours referring to herself in the
third person when you switched to using first.
Why does Sindi hate GUIs?
Jeff agrees with Cross; for the kinds of things one can do with Win98 these
days, a GUI linux distro would be better for most people than Win98. There
are several distros Jeff or Sindi could use which are low-powered and have
GUIs.
Jeff agrees that Sindi has a right not to use GUI's if she chooses not to,
but surely Sindi realises that she is not at all in the majority in this?
Cross was right to use the word "pathological" in the sense he used it, but
Jeff agrees with whomever pointed out that Cross should have explained his
use of the word.
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cross
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response 150 of 203:
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Feb 18 15:11 UTC 2007 |
Dan wonders why people insist on calling him Cross and not just, you know,
Dan. Or even dan.
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twenex
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response 151 of 203:
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Feb 18 15:29 UTC 2007 |
Jeff calls Dan {C,c}ross because that's his login name.
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twenex
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response 152 of 203:
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Feb 18 15:29 UTC 2007 |
And surname.
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cross
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response 153 of 203:
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Feb 18 15:33 UTC 2007 |
Dan understands that. But Dan would sort of prefer Dan.
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keesan
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response 154 of 203:
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Feb 18 16:04 UTC 2007 |
keesan to cross and twenex:
Someone specifically wanted Win98 to play Win9X educational games on with her
daycare kids. Someone else specifically wants to learn MS WORD so she can
get a job in an MS OFFICE. Other people (who I have never met) wanted
something their friends in Ypsi could help them with.
Linux is going onto computers for friends, and they seem able to manage
without help once I set it up with Opera and give them a quick lesson. No
Windows worms or viruses, and it runs much much faster. It also takes only
a few minutes to copy over from a USB memory stick and uncompress (once I
partition and format the drive), and put on their phone number, login and
password. I don't need to download 8MB of video driver because I have some
older video cards that work with a standard driver and configuration.
Since ALL they want to do is browse the internet, and don't need anything
fancy such as Shockwave Flash or even sound, this is a small tool that does
the job much faster than a big one.
keesan does not like GUIs because: they take longer to set up and load
(though linux X and icewm are only a couple of seconds), they waste memory,
they are designed around a mouse and it is quicker for me to use the keyboard,
they waste hard drive space (a bigger hard drive boots slower because linux
checks it out first). But sets them up for friends so they can use Opera.
Opera is now usable as 'user' - su user first. I dial as root so that user
won't have access to the file containing login and password.
Three of our friends for whom I set up both Win98 and linux with opera have
not used the Win98 version, they prefer linux. Faster, more stable.
I had it booting into X (vt1 - the other vts were still console) until I added
the password package and now I lost that. SOmeone suggested putting startx
in profile but then I would not have three consoles in addition to X. Any
other ideas? I had edited inittab to only make vt1 go to X.
memory leak, forcing core dump, segmentation fault (I exited lynx on vt3)....
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cross
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response 155 of 203:
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Feb 18 16:41 UTC 2007 |
The problem with Windows 98 and web browsing is that Windows 98 is horribly
insecure. A Windows 98 machine dialing into the net is likely to get
compromised almost immediately, even one coming over a slow dialup line!
Hence the danger.
I would check and see if Windows programs run under WINE or something similar
before going with Windows 98.
It's not just about simplicity and space, it's also about security.
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maus
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response 156 of 203:
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Feb 18 17:55 UTC 2007 |
Dan, sorry about referring to you by your login name. I'll try to
remember to refer to you by your given name instead. No insult intended.
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maus
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response 157 of 203:
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Feb 18 17:55 UTC 2007 |
P.S: Dan or dan ?
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cross
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response 158 of 203:
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Feb 18 18:36 UTC 2007 |
That's all right; I prefer Dan, but will respond to either. I'm just curious
why people choose one over the other, and of course, I realize that no insult
was intended.
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keesan
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response 159 of 203:
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Feb 18 19:47 UTC 2007 |
If you read closely, you will see that I put Win98 on for wordprocessing and
linux/opera (run as user from now on, not root) for internet. I ran a
chkrootkit program which did not detect any linux viruses after 4 years of
my running as root. I have no daemons running (no open ports) except Xvesa.
I am offering Abiword for wordprocessing but people want Windows. Some people
also insist on Windows for browsing and that is what I gave them. I told them
to get a virus checking program and not do anything high security. They do
email. They do not have the money to purchase a new computer with new
Windows.
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cross
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response 160 of 203:
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Feb 18 19:48 UTC 2007 |
...and what we're saying is that those people would be better off with Linux,
even if they want to run Windows software, it would be better to run it under
emulation than on native Windows.
Where do you get all these Windows licenses, anyway?
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keesan
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response 161 of 203:
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Feb 18 20:17 UTC 2007 |
We get Win98 on lots of used hard drives and remove junk from it.
I am not going to spend time learning to run Windows emulated under linux just
for people who don't want to use linux. I tried dosemu and it works badly
with the programs I wanted it for. Does okay with a CAD program in xdosemu.
Would you like to put some minimal linux with Windows emulation on 500MB
drives for me to give away?
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keesan
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response 162 of 203:
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Feb 18 20:23 UTC 2007 |
How much space would linux with WINE require? wineHQ has a Slackware 10.2
binary that should run on a 386 that is 10MB tgz - maybe it would fit but I
don't have Slackware 10.2 or want it. Upgrading the glibc to use this binary
would require also changing the kernel and modules. Not impossible and this
certainly takes less space than 150MB of Windows 98 itself. I have 150MB free
space in the linux partition for the friend who wants WORD and linux/opera.
And only 50MB free in the Windows partition. Thanks for the idea.
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keesan
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response 163 of 203:
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Feb 18 21:16 UTC 2007 |
I can't find a binary for anything older than Slackware 10.2. Source is 11MB
bz2. A list of supported applications includes WORD97 and 2000.
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cross
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response 164 of 203:
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Feb 18 21:37 UTC 2007 |
Regarding #161; Err, that's kind of illegal.
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maus
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response 165 of 203:
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Feb 18 23:48 UTC 2007 |
Can you give me a bit more information about the boxes besides the max
drive size? Are the PCI-based? What brand of NIC do they use? I may be
able to throw together a nice image that you can toast onto a bunch of
CF cards or small drives, and be done. I will probably base it off of a
standard version of Slack 11 or something else "normal" and
well-known/well-supported.
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