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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 404 responses total. |
tod
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response 137 of 404:
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Dec 30 19:35 UTC 2005 |
re #130
Absolutely
re #131
The ACLU is not a "free legal aid" society for anybody and everybody
who has been wronged and has a need; they tend to concentrate their
limited resources on cases which have the potential to be important not
just to the parties involved but in establishing precedents and
guidelines for many others.
Gee, really?
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richard
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response 138 of 404:
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Dec 30 19:39 UTC 2005 |
I mean what would you rather have, a country where nobody stands for
anything, and everybody looks and sounds the same? Thats the middle
ground utopia, where we can all be friends. And where none of us has
any real identity. Too many people in this country do not stand up for
their beliefs, and do not bother to define themselves. The tendency to
the center leads to political apathy, and political apathy is the
single most dangerous thing in the world. It leads to people becoming
de-sensitized to the world's political struggles.
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tod
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response 139 of 404:
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Dec 30 19:43 UTC 2005 |
Spewing hearsay and hollywood bullshit also leads to apathy. You know, like
when people claim the NSA is using satellites to see if our shoes are laced
left over right and other weird paranoid delusions.
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marcvh
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response 140 of 404:
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Dec 30 19:47 UTC 2005 |
The problem that some on the left (including Richard, apparently) have
is sticking to just one topic at a time, rather than rambling about
anything and everything all at once. It's like someone showing up at
an anti-Iraq-war rally with a "Free Mumia" sign; it distracts focus and
serves only to piss people off for no good reason.
This can happen on the right as well, of course, but it seems less
endemic there.
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richard
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response 141 of 404:
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Dec 30 19:50 UTC 2005 |
Why did Ronald Reagan do so well in the 80's? It was because he didn't
try to be a centerist, he stood his ground on the right wing side and
people-- even those on the left-- appreciated the strength of his
convictions. Mondale and Dukakis were liberals who tried to tow the
center line, who tried to be the princes of the middle ground, all
things to all people, and ended up looking-- when compared to Reagan--
as if they didn't have nearly the same strength of conviction. In the
last election, Bush stood on stronger ground on the right than Kerry
did on the left. Democrats lose trying to be centerists.
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richard
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response 142 of 404:
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Dec 30 20:12 UTC 2005 |
Do you know how bad it is? On the left, a lot of people who are
liberals won't even CALL themselves "liberals" anymore. People like
Aruba will call themselves "progressives" instead, because they are
trying as hard as they can to be friends, and look friendly, to
everyone else in the room.
You have a right wing doing all these things, such as this wiretapping,
and a left wing thats afraid of its own shadow. Its pathetic. Why
can't we be passionate about our own views, and care enough about
others that we want them to see the validity of our views? Why do we
have to seek the middle ground and only talk about those few things we
actually agree on? That is not healthy political debate!
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gull
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response 143 of 404:
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Dec 30 20:18 UTC 2005 |
Re resp:106: Sorry if I misread. It seemed to me you were
backtracking...saying, essentially, that you thought Bush should be
impeached...but then again, maybe he had good reasons for doing what he
did...not like that evil Clinton, who would have sold a nuke to
terrorists for his own benefit, given the chance.
I do appreciate that you're taking on someone who would normally be
your ally, here. I was just taken aback by the sudden veer into
reflexive Clinton-bashing.
Re resp:123: He'd probably quietly accept the help, without changing
his public views, just like Rush Limbaugh. Good thing for them the
ACLU doesn't bear grudges.
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edina
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response 144 of 404:
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Dec 30 20:22 UTC 2005 |
Jesus Christ Richard - shut up.
First off, how DARE you be so insulting to people who are trying to figure
out just where they stand when it comes to their politics. Do you have any
clue what it's like to be part of a party that half the time you don't agree
with them? Because believe it or not, Richard, I am a Democrat and I don't
agree half the time. And the GOP is no better.
Secondly, you spout off about political empathy. You want to know something,
NYC boy - try living out here. Try living somewhere where national politics
is very far off the radar. Try it. 97% of the people here don't care about
wiretapping. They don't. And you want to know something else? I'm somewhat
apathetic towards politics because I am busy. I'm busy at work doing a job
that believe it or not, does bear on civil rights. So there's 60 hours of
my time being part of something that will hopefully produce some good. (Or
at least get rid of a corrupt public official.) And when I'm not working,
I'm volunteering with three teenagers as their advocate. So there's another
5-10 hours a week of my life.
So you know what? If I don't always have the time or energy to be reading
all of the left/right wing newspapers everyone is so fond of, try not to
accuse me of apathy - it's insulting.
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richard
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response 145 of 404:
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Dec 30 20:29 UTC 2005 |
edina I didn't accuse you specifically of apathy. Don't take
everything so personally. I was speaking of general terms, and in
general terms, there IS a lot of voter apathy out there. As someone
who works actively on election day at the polls, I am discouraged by
the continuing decline in voter turnout. There is a war, a political
war, going on in this country and the good guys are losing because too
many people on our side are sitting it out. Bush shouldn't be
president right now. But not enough people on our side voted. That is
my opinion.
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edina
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response 146 of 404:
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Dec 30 20:36 UTC 2005 |
Don't take it personally? Come off it. You are so absolutely infuriating
in your tones of absolute that I find it impossible to NOT take it personally.
I'll never understand how people just don't seem to get it. Want to change
the world? Go to law school and learn how to write laws and either become
a politician or work for one, or go to business school and make a lot of money
so you can contribute to causes you believe in.
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tod
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response 147 of 404:
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Dec 30 21:14 UTC 2005 |
I like the way my cousin is doing it: He is a surgeon with a Marine
detachment. He sends me real stories about humanity that the media won't
touch because it paints the Iraq war for what it is. War.
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richard
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response 148 of 404:
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Dec 30 22:04 UTC 2005 |
re #147 in other words, you want war stories that are just about the
war, as opposed to whether the war is right or wrong or the political
nature of the war? You must like Tom Clancy novels. :)
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tod
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response 149 of 404:
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Dec 30 22:20 UTC 2005 |
re #148
I don't hear you bitching about the mafia or the corrupt NYC cops. Why is
that? Too close to home? Safer ranting about shit you are too far removed
from so you dont' feel any guilt?
Look, I've been in war. I dont' agree with the Iraq occupation. I dont like
the way veterans are screwed over by the budget. I am doing things about
it. I've been so heavily involved in changing things that I've burned many
bridges with people that used to be friends. I don't like to talk as much
as I like to act. I especially don't like to stand around with a sign
and wait for somebody else to unfuck things.
What the fuck are you doing about your own backyard, richard? SO far
as I can tell, you hang out in bars and complain about politics with your
drunken yuppy pals. Don't tell me what kind of novels I read. Unlike
yourself, fiction doesn't interest me.
Picket signs are for lazy people, by the way.
Here's what my cousin wrote just in case you're interested:
12/24/05
Christmas Eve in Al Habbaniyah Iraq
Those of you that truly know me may find this story a little out of character.
It is Christmas Eve here. Aside from the date and some scattered Christmas
lights strung out in our compound you would not know it is Christmas. There
is no semblance of any type to what we know as Christmas or the holiday
season. Warriors still continue the battle as I sit here typing this. I use
the term warrior because we have almost all branches of the service at my
location. Army Soldiers, Marines, Navy, and even a few Air Force types are
here fighting together. We are not alone in this fight. There is the Iraqi
Army, the Iraqi Police, and civilian contractors from all over the world. I
have only been here a short time and I can see that this is a very different
situation than my first trip during the first Gulf War.
Two things have happened today that me stop and think about what we are doing
here and why we make these sacrifices. You may read this and not understand.
That is OK because sometimes it is difficult for us (Americans) to do that.
For all the Americans at home now enjoying the holiday with friends and
families I would ask you to take just a few seconds of your privileged life
and think of what life would be like for you and your family if your holiday
was spent here. Less than 1% of the American population has served or is
currently serving in the American armed forces. Indeed, a very small
percentage of our population willing to ensure OUR way of life. I want to
share two incidents that happened just today that let me know my sacrifice
is worth it.
An IED (Improvised Explosive Device) hit a vehicle carrying soldiers of the
Iraqi Army. My BAS (Battalion Aid Station) treats not only Americans but
Iraqis, civilian contractors, and even the bad guys. An Iraqi Soldier
sustained shrapnel wounds to his left wrist and thumb. Mostly just lacerations
that we could take care of. The IA Soldier was brought in by his American
advisor only after he put up a fight insisting that he did not need medical
attention. He did this as blood was spurting from one of his wounds. He wanted
only to stay in the fight and work towards freeing his country. He came to
us reluctantly. We did not have an interpreter but were able to give him an
idea of what needed to be done. He laid there and made no sound as we did our
thing. When I was done he reluctantly looked down and his left hand. I could
see his eyes look at each finger as he moved his hand around to see
everything. I knew then that he was ready to look down and see that he was
missing some fingers or his whole left hand. A smile slowly spread across his
face as he realized that he was a whole person. He stood up from the stretcher
not sure what to do next. We helped him slip his armor and helmet back on.
His American advisor walked over to him and slapped him on the back with a
big smile. It was then that he realized that were sending him back to his unit
to continue to fight. He gave me a huge smile with teeth that only someone
who works in the ER could appreciate. He shook my hand firmly and in his best
English said ..Thank you.. This was a guy who was just blown up in a truck.
Now this Soldier was going back out there so they could do it again. And he
thanked me! Do they tell this type of story on TV back home?
We are somewhat isolated on our FOB (Forward Operating Base). I would say
..rustic. would be a good way to put how we live here. Contact with home is
difficult. There is an ATT phone trailer here that is a good hike away.
Sometimes they work, sometimes they don..t. I left home with 4 ATT cards. Each
card had 1200 minutes on it. I thought that should hold me for awhile. As I
made my first phone calls home I went thru one card in 60 minutes. I thought
it must just be some mistake so I called ATT. Well, it was NO MISTAKE that
my 1200 minute card only lasted 60 minutes. ATT bills you 20:1 for call from
Iraq. Yes, that is correct. For every minute you talk your card is charged
20 minutes. Now there is only one phone trailer here, ATT. And come to think
of it I have only seen ATT phone trailers on the bases enroute here. So if
you do not like the rate, too bad.
So another choice is using the internet to have voice contact with home. I
had not even heard of this before I came here. After looking into it I thought
it was worth a try. Only problem was that I did not bring my microphone for
the computer. Why should I have? Microphones for a computer are easy to pick
up, just go to Best Buy. Well we do not have one here. Our PX (Post Exchange)
is the worst PX I have seen in all my years in the service. It just does not
have anything in it. Beef jerky, Prell shampoo, chewing tobacco is about it.
One of the Soldiers suggested that I go to the Hajji Shop. This is a shop set
up on base that is run by a local. I had not been in there since my arrival.
So I walked to the shop ready to find out he did not have one. What else did
I have to do? I was getting dark and the owner of the shop was standing
outside the door of the shop with an old Army flashlight. You could not see
into the shop because there was no lighting in it. I said ..Hello. and he
returned the ..Hello. and extended his hand. I shook his hand and asked if
he had a microphone for a computer. He thought for a moment and said ..No..
We did not even go into the shop because it was dark. I thanked him, turned
and started to walk away. He called out ..Sir, do you want a memory stick?.
I told him again that I wanted a microphone as I made some stupid gesture like
I was talking into a microphone. He said ..Oh. and turned the flashlight on
and led me into the shop. He shinned the light on some speakers. I told him
..No. as I thought to myself that he was just trying to make a sale. He then
shined the light on some headphones with an attached microphone.
Surprised I said ..Hey that is it.. We walked out of the shop so that I could
look at them in the last remaining light. I then asked him ..How much?. This
man is a business man with a family to take care of. He knows perfectly well
the situation we are in and what lengths we will go to contact home. I was
prepared to pay him anything he asked for. I was expecting him to ask for say
$20. It was a big cheap thing made who knows where. He looked at me and said
..No, gift.. I was caught off guard and asked again ..How much.. Once again
he said ..No, it is a gift to you. It is Christmas. Merry Christmas.. I
thanked him with my hand over my heart and asked him to allow me to pay for
the headset. I told him that it was very kind but I wanted to pay him for the
product. He smiled at me again and said ..This is my Christmas gift to you.
Merry Christmas.. I did not know what to do. I had refused the offer the
customary 3 times and still he was insisting. And he meant it! I asked him
what I could give him for Christmas. He told me to ..Wish me good luck.. I
shook his hand, wished him ..Good luck and a merry Christmas.. Yes, I wished
him a Merry Christmas. A holiday that he does not celebrate. A holiday that
in some parts back home it is considered not appropriate to put up a
..Christmas tree.. A ..Holiday tree. is more appropriate for some. I have
never met this man before. He had an easy mark and could have ended his day
with a nice big chunk of American money in his pocket. Instead, he chose not
to.
So why do we do it? I am not exactly sure. Why do these two Iraqis I
encountered today do it? I am not exactly sure.
So what does it all mean? It means everything and nothing. I am ending my day,
Christmas eve 2005 differently than I started it. Certainly not what I was
expecting. Definitely a day I will not forget.
Merry Christmas
Kevin
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dpfitzen
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response 150 of 404:
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Dec 30 23:14 UTC 2005 |
Mighty sorry if I distracted the discussion. The discussion of wire taps ,
the law,previous presidents use of wire taps . Can't understand abit about
resignation and or impeachment when no one has definately determined if a
federal crime has been committed. Where did the various lawyers obtain their
facts for advising the president? Were the laws so poorly written anyone and
everyone is right? Considering newspaper articles and various leaks could
it be there is plenty reason for not reporting a wire tap? What about the
old classified material idea? Don't understand comparing one leven of crime
with another. A crime is a crime degree has to do with punishment. To
determine if one is a habitual lier prehaps the chicago trubune articles will
prove interesting to some to establish Bush's integrity and respect for the
constitution. It was suggested it would be nice if we could find something
to agree on. Well todays articles in the series reads (president had legal
authority to ok taps and the second so much for protecting constitution) Now
there is something for everyone. The business of religion gosh thought we
out grew that when a catholic became pres. Where does one establish God &
King Pres. theory? Control courts well guess that depends on who is counting
left or right. That is if one or the other have been counted as more
religious. ACLU prey on weak minds prehaps I don't know but feel they aren't
doing our country any good acting like we aren't at war. Like some the more
law suits they can come up with the more $ and more power. Seems it has been
proven to be anything but democratic.
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nharmon
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response 151 of 404:
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Dec 30 23:56 UTC 2005 |
Tod, I enjoyed very much reading that story. Thank you for sharing it
with us!
Re: the ACLU. I don't agree with them on everything. And I do think they
are a bit less non-partisan than others claim. However, all in all I
think they do good work.
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cyklone
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response 152 of 404:
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Dec 31 01:25 UTC 2005 |
Re #150: "Can't understand abit about resignation and or impeachment when
no one has definately determined if a federal crime has been committed."
Bush has admitted to not following FISA. He and his supporters claim his
constitutional powers as CIC permit him to do this. Previous SCOTUS
decisions, in which presidents have made similar assertions, have rejected
Bush's interpretation. Therefore, it's not too hard to conclude Bush not
only broke the law but that his defense to his crime will be rejected.
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richard
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response 153 of 404:
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Dec 31 01:50 UTC 2005 |
True but Bush will simply claim that he followed his lawyer's advice.
His lawyer being the Attorney General. He'll make Gonzalez take the
fall if it comes to it.
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klg
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response 154 of 404:
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Dec 31 02:26 UTC 2005 |
When the TSA was established, the ACLU threatened to sue if it used
personal appearance as a means of i.d.ing potential terrorists. It said
the screeners should use individual behavior, instead.
Now, the TSA has announced a program to use individual behavior as the
means of i.d.ing potential terrorists.
The ACLU has threatened to sue.
Are they funny, or what?
(Would someone please get Richard a dictionary of IDIOMS?)
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richard
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response 155 of 404:
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Dec 31 02:48 UTC 2005 |
The ACLU is not suing over the monitoring of individual behaviour of
TERRORISTS to ID terrorists. They are suing over the monitoring of the
individual behaviour of PRIVATE AMERICAN CITIZENS. You do understand
the difference between monitoring foreign persons who are suspected of
being terrorists, and monitoring private american citizens who are
supposed to be protected, ensured the basic right to privacy, by the
Bill of Rights, don't you klg?
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scooterlibby
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response 156 of 404:
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Dec 31 02:55 UTC 2005 |
Deal with it. This president is going to do whatever the fuck he wants,
and there isn't a god damned thing you can do about it.
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klg
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response 157 of 404:
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Dec 31 03:14 UTC 2005 |
Oh, I get it. If an AMERICAN CITIZEN wants to take A BOMB on board to
bring down a jetliner, THAT'S OK WITH RICHARD. (Just as long as HE'S
NOT ON IT, I'd guess.)
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cyklone
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response 158 of 404:
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Dec 31 03:58 UTC 2005 |
You are such a totally lame troll. Richard may go overboard in expressing
his views, but he never said anything remotely close to what you claim.
What he wants is a LEGAL means to identify and prevent terrorism.
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gull
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response 159 of 404:
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Dec 31 04:04 UTC 2005 |
Getting back to the original topic...the Justice Department announced
today that they're investigating the leak that led to us all finding out
about this program.
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jep
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response 160 of 404:
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Dec 31 04:56 UTC 2005 |
I think it's true that the things we are most likely to see changed, are
the things that we all favor, conservatives and liberals together. I
happen to hate land mines as much as anyone who hasn't been personally
affected by them. I hate torture, too. I have good solid reasons,
grounded in my own political philosophy, for these stands. People like
aruba, and people like me, who are not afraid to cooperate with one
another despite other differences, are more likely to get a change
enacted than would be more radical people.
I am opposed to the unconstitutional behavior of the current president
because I am conservative. (And I voted against him the 2nd time
because I think he was dishonest and also wrong on the biggest decision
he will ever make, to invade Iraq.) I was opposed to the
unconstitutional decision of the Clinton administration to ban people
living in public housing projects from possessing firearms and I said so
at the time of the decision. If you think the Constitution is
important, it is as critical to say so when your side messes it up as
when the other side does so.
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klg
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response 161 of 404:
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Dec 31 18:43 UTC 2005 |
Does John hate the land mines that have been keeping the N. Koreans from
infiltrating into the south and killing people there?
Does brodbeck find in unusual that the Justice Department should
investigate a criminal act?
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