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Grex > Agora56 > #84: Newspaper in Denmark prints cartoon pics of Mohammed | |
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| 25 new of 432 responses total. |
fudge
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response 128 of 432:
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Feb 7 12:26 UTC 2006 |
my real concern would be that kids that are not really into science, and who
will not put much thought into it, will be left with the absurd notion that
ID has anything to do with science ( which incidentally is a method, not
another fucking religion ), thus growing into misinformed adults, ready to
join the herd...
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kingjon
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response 129 of 432:
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Feb 7 12:40 UTC 2006 |
And the concern of thousands if not millions of Americans is that students will
get the idea that molecules-to-man Evolution is the same thing as science --
which is supposedly a method.
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fudge
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response 130 of 432:
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Feb 7 12:48 UTC 2006 |
darwinian evolution by selection is not "the same thing as science" but it
definitely *is* a scientific theory, inasmuch as it has been developed by
scientific approach and is a process that has been observed in a number of
contexts. "intelligent design" might be a theory, but it is definitely NOT
scientific and from where I'm standing not even near "intelligent". want to
talk fairy tales? do it in RE or humanities classes, or better at a SF con.
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twenex
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response 131 of 432:
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Feb 7 12:54 UTC 2006 |
You lot are as bad as each other.
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fudge
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response 132 of 432:
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Feb 7 12:57 UTC 2006 |
I'm badder.
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jep
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response 133 of 432:
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Feb 7 13:57 UTC 2006 |
re resp:103: "Are there any honest ACLU opponents out there?" Yes,
there are. I consider myself an honest man, with strong and honorable
convictions which cause me to oppose the ACLU. I don't believe you
have any reason to call me dishonest, but if you disagree, I would
appreciate hearing why.
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marcvh
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response 134 of 432:
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Feb 7 14:53 UTC 2006 |
(Re #133, it was a rhetorical question based on the huge number of
distortions and half-truths against the ACLU previously quoted.)
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rcurl
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response 135 of 432:
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Feb 7 17:56 UTC 2006 |
I'm puzzled by why an honest person would oppose the ACLU categorically,
unless they also opposed the Bill of RIghts.
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kingjon
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response 136 of 432:
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Feb 7 17:58 UTC 2006 |
An honest person could look at the ACLU and come to the conclusion that it's
only paying lip service to the Bill of Rights and is actually trampling on it
instead. (This is *not* my conclusion, but it's a possible explanation for the
honest-person-categorically-hates-ACLU position.)
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tod
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response 137 of 432:
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Feb 7 18:02 UTC 2006 |
The ACLU has engaged in lobbying has it not? And a good amount of funding
for the ACLU has come from legal fees payed by states and other entities that
lose cases regarding the Ten Commandments displays and free speech cases?
I can understand entirely why someone would oppose aligning themself with any
lobbyists which may include the ACLU.
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klg
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response 138 of 432:
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Feb 7 18:03 UTC 2006 |
(Whose Bill of Rights?? Ours or the terrorists?)
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marcvh
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response 139 of 432:
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Feb 7 18:04 UTC 2006 |
I don't see how one could come to that conclusion unless he thought that
the Bill of Rights serves to protect the "rights" of the government
(e.g. the "right" to force schoolchildren to pray, the "right" to grant
special favors to some religious organizations, the "right" to prevent
unpopular groups from expressing their viewpoint, and so on.)
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kingjon
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response 140 of 432:
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Feb 7 18:09 UTC 2006 |
I didn't say the hypothetical honest person was *right*, just *honest*. There
are a whole lot of honest but misguided people on every side of every political
debate.
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rcurl
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response 141 of 432:
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Feb 7 18:12 UTC 2006 |
In regard to the ACLU lobbying...yes, it does in it efforts to protect civil
rights. But that is not done entirely by lobbying. In fact, much of the
support of the ACLU is tax deductible through the 501(c)3 tax-exempt donations
to the ACLU foundation. Here is a paragraph from the ACLU website about that:
"Defending First Amendment freedoms, equality, privacy rights and fundamental
fairness requires constant vigilance and support. Each year, individuals and
institutions -- including foundations, unions and corporations -- demonstrate
their commitment to those shared constitutional values through steady gifts
and grants to the ACLU Foundation. Many ACLU members also give generously
beyond their annual dues, through tax-deductible gifts to the ACLU
Foundation's litigation and public education programs, as well as through
special gifts that support the ACLU's lobbying efforts. This support is
indispensable in ensuring that the ACLU's core programs and special projects
are fully equipped."
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gull
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response 142 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:01 UTC 2006 |
Generally most people I meet who oppose the ACLU do so because they
feel the ACLU is anti-religious. I think this is partly the fault of
the ACLU's public relations -- the many cases where they *support*
someone's right to religious expression don't get nearly enough press,
which allows right-wing mouthpieces to continue the drumbeat of "the
ACLU wants to take God away from you."
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tod
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response 143 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:03 UTC 2006 |
Anti-Christian is more on target, imo.
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kingjon
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response 144 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:05 UTC 2006 |
I wish there was a news source that would report the sorts of things that the
major sources don't consider "newsworthy", if necessary summarizing things like
NPR does on casualties in Iraq. Unfortunately, as things are now, only negative
or "sensational" stories get press.
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gull
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response 145 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:08 UTC 2006 |
Re resp:143: Except that they've often defended Christians' individual
rights to express their religious faith. Where they come into conflict
with Christians is when people attempt to use government resources to
push the Christian faith on others. Unfortunately many Christians
believe that the government should act as an arm of the church, hence
the conflict.
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rcurl
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response 146 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:35 UTC 2006 |
There are also more Christians than other sects, so they commit more
violations of civil rights.
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kingjon
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response 147 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:40 UTC 2006 |
.... and also most likely have more civil rights violations committed against
them.
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tod
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response 148 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:52 UTC 2006 |
re #147
Are you saying Christians have it harder than Jews when it comes to prayer
in school, pledge of allegiance, and 10 commandments posted in a court house?
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rcurl
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response 149 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:53 UTC 2006 |
By other Christians, at that....
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kingjon
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response 150 of 432:
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Feb 7 19:56 UTC 2006 |
Re #148: No, merely drawing the same conclusion as (I think) 146: The larger a
population, the more likely you are to find a certain attribute.
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richard
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response 151 of 432:
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Feb 7 20:02 UTC 2006 |
kingjon, if a federal judge in your district was a Satanist, if that was his
religious belief that he held devoutly, do you think that judge should be able
to keep a picture of Satan in his courtroom?
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tod
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response 152 of 432:
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Feb 7 20:05 UTC 2006 |
On the news last night, there was a story about a Judge that made the
courtroom say "Go Seahawks" several times last Friday. The first hearing was
for the sentencing of a killer and the family of the victims was traumatized
that they had to chant right before such an event.
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