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Grex > Classical > #45: Most Popular Classical Music - acquiring a basic LP collection | |
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| 25 new of 194 responses total. |
md
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response 125 of 194:
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Jan 21 20:35 UTC 2000 |
Really? Is it programmed much? I think
it's a wonderful piece, and was happy to see
the little oboe tune from the trio section
excerpted as a Christmas melody by John Fahey
on one of his Christmas CDs; but I didn't
think the overture was listened to enough to
save Sammy from one-hitdom.
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davel
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response 126 of 194:
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Jan 22 15:18 UTC 2000 |
Pachelbel wrote some other rather nice stuff - I heard some, all things for
harpsichord (if I recall) some 25 years ago, so I don't recall very well.
The one piece of Bruch's which *I* would pick is the Scottish Fantasy. The
violin concerto you (keesan) mention has a similar flavor, & is very nice.
I've heard other things of his which I don't like as well. (Remember, I
mostly don't like anything recognizably 20th-century ...) I also like Faure's
Requiem enough to think of it as if it were his one major piece, but indeed
he wrote others well worth listening to.
Michael, you forgot Barber's Agnus Dei (heh, heh).
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orinoco
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response 127 of 194:
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Jan 22 16:25 UTC 2000 |
Well, presumably the guy did _write_ other stuff. You don't just wake up one
morning out of the blue, write the Adagio for Strings, and then forget all
about it.
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md
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response 128 of 194:
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Jan 22 23:04 UTC 2000 |
He wrote the Adagio when he was twenty-six, as the
slow movement of a string quartet. (He wrote to
a friend, "It's a knockout," so he knew.) He then
arranged it for full string orchestra and gave it
to Toscanini, who premiered it.) There is very
little of Barber's music that I would consider
negligible; several works are masterpieces.
The trouble with his music is that most of it is a
shade too cultivated to please the masses of people
who love the Adagio, but way too old-fashioned to have
pleased the critics and academics who were hung up on
serialism and minimalism during most of his creative
life. Plus, he didn't have a "theory" or "school" or
"movement" to back his music up with; I think that made
it inaudible to people who need such things. "I just
keep on doing, as they say, my thing," he once remarked;
"I think that takes a certain courage."
The trouble with Barber himself seems to be that he was
an outspoken guy who made enemies of some
very powerful people. At the height of the Ives craze,
for example, he could've just kept his mouth shut or made
noncommittal noises to spare the feelings of the various
luminaries who were "discovering" Ives. But he said what
he thought: Ives was "a clumsy amateur." He used to taunt
serialist Rene Liebowitz by referring to him as "Maestro
Ztiwobeil," and then ask, "What's the matter? Don't you
recognize your own name in retrograde?" Stuff like that.
It caught up with him, in spades, when his opera Antony
and Cleopatra bombed at the opening of the new Met in 1966.
A *very* high-profile failure. The critics went into a
feeding frenzy; Barber sank into a depression from which he
never fully recovered.
Favorite Barber works of mine:
School for Scandal Overture (wrote it when he was 20)
Music for a Scene from Shelley
First Symphony
Essay #1 and Essay #2
Capricorn Concerto (flute, oboe, trumpet and strings)
Violin Concerto
Cello Concerto
Medea (ballet score)
Knoxville: Summer of 1915 (soprano and orchestra)
Summer Music (woodwind quintet)
Vanessa (opera)
Toccata Festiva (organ and orchestra)
Piano Concerto
The Lovers (oratorio on poems by Pablo Neruda)
Fadograph of a Yestern Scene
I would say his big-ticket masterpieces are probably
Knoxville: Summer of 1915, Vanessa, and the Piano
Concerto.
So there you have way more about "Sammy" than you
probably wanted to know.
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keesan
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response 129 of 194:
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Jan 23 18:27 UTC 2000 |
Thanks, I will try Barber and Elgar. More suggestions will be welcome.
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dbratman
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response 130 of 194:
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Jan 29 00:05 UTC 2000 |
I didn't know about those snippy comments of Barber's (on Ives and
Leibowitz, two people I can mostly live without). I think more highly
of him for having made them. Perhaps Ives would not have objected to
being called a clumsy amateur. He reveled in being a clumsy amateur.
_The_ Elgar Pomp and Circumstance march, the one everyone knows from
graduation, is No. 1. The famous part isn't the first theme, either, so
don't be alarmed when, at the beginning of the track, you think, "Uh,
oh, I've got the wrong one."
Under the title, "Land of Hope and Glory," it became a famous British
hymn, one of two to come from classical compositions of that era, the
other being "I Vow To Thee My Country" (which some may remember from
Princess Diana's funeral), which came from Holst's _Planets_ (Jupiter).
The popularity of these led to an era when conservative British
composers put wanna-be hymns in most of their compositions ...
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keesan
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response 131 of 194:
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Jan 29 00:09 UTC 2000 |
Can anyone tell me more about the following composers, all of whom died on
Mozart's birthday, which happens to also be my brother's birthday?
----
From: "Morris M. Keesan" <keesan@world.std.com>
To: "C. Keesan" <keesan@cyberspace.org>
Subject: Re: Happy Mozart's 200+
Yes, Verdi died on 27 January 1901.
Other composers who died on 27 January include
1629 Hieronymus Praetorius
1802 Johann Rudolf Zumsteeg
1850 Philipp Roth
1851 Karl Moser
1904 Adam Minchejmer
1930 Jean Hure
1941 Iver Paul Fredrik Holter
1949 Boris Asafiev
1954 Paul-Marie Masson
1964 Lieb Glanz
1969 Hanns Jelinek
1978 Marguerite Canal
none of whom I had ever heard of before looking them up at
http://www.scopesys.com/anyday/ .
I recognized only Praetorius, and I recall he was born by some other name.
What sort of music did the others write?
(I will impress my brother with your answers).
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md
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response 132 of 194:
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Jan 29 02:32 UTC 2000 |
Never heard of 'em.
[One of my favorite Barber stories is the time
his live-in lover, Gian-Carlo Menotti, threw a
party at their Mount Kisco place for a bunch of
show biz types (Menotti was the party animal of
the duo) and Barber locked himself in the
bathroom for the whole evening because he didn't
want to meet Talulah (sp?) Bankhead.]
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davel
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response 133 of 194:
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Jan 29 13:37 UTC 2000 |
The Praetorius I know was (I think) Michael, but either I could be wrong or
Hieronymus could be his real name. Never heard of the rest of them, AFAIK.
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keesan
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response 134 of 194:
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Jan 30 04:36 UTC 2000 |
There were two Praetoriuses, Michael (nee Schulz) being better known.
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orinoco
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response 135 of 194:
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Jan 31 22:31 UTC 2000 |
Philip Roth the author sounds familiar, but not Philipp Roth the composer.
Yeah, these are all new to me too.
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keesan
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response 136 of 194:
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Jan 31 22:47 UTC 2000 |
Maybe I should check that site for composers who died on my own birthday.
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albaugh
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response 137 of 194:
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Feb 1 06:37 UTC 2000 |
I've played a renaissance (sounding) band arrangement of a suite by a
Praetorious, first name Jan. Didn't recognize the other composers.
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keesan
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response 138 of 194:
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Feb 2 03:34 UTC 2000 |
Okay, how would you choose from the followng versions of Brahms' Variations
on Haydn?
1. Bruno Walter and Columbia Symphony Orchestra, pre 1962 (he died then),
Columbia Odyssey mono
2. George Szell and Cleveland Orchestra, 'Mom and Dad for XMAS 1972',
Columbia Masterworks stereo
3. Leonard Bernstein and NY Philharmonic, dated 1978, stereo,
Columbia Masterworks
4. Herbert von Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic, D. Grammophon, with jacket nots
in French, English and German (nice for a translator, good translations)
Choose one or at most two, and please explain why. None are scratched -
usually that makes the choice easier, though I have picked scratchy Artur
Rubinstein over unscratchy Serkin (who plays more like a computer). I don't
mind the mono.
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md
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response 139 of 194:
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Feb 2 13:56 UTC 2000 |
I'd keep 'em all, but if I had to have only
one it would be the Karajan if it predates
about 1980. Otherwise, Bruno Walter. Brahms
needs careful deliberation and a little
old-fashioned European sentiment, both of
which Walter and Karajan excelled at, imho.
But without hearing the recordings, this is
just guesswork. My advice is listen to all
four and decide for yourself.
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md
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response 140 of 194:
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Feb 2 13:58 UTC 2000 |
Btw, I have the Haydn Variations by Toscanini
on LP and by Bernstein on CD. I like Toscanini
better, but the sound on the Bernsein DG CD is
spectacular.
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keesan
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response 141 of 194:
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Feb 2 17:13 UTC 2000 |
No date on the Karajan but I have not found a record dated after 1978 at
Kiwanis yet. I also have Bruno Walter's 3rd and 4th Symphonies - and
Bernstein'a 4th and Karajan's 3rd.
Handel - Five choices on the Water Music. I think I will skip the arrangment
by Eugene Ormandy (on the same record as Sir Hamilton Harty's reorchestration
of Fireworks Music).
Leaving:
1. Vanguard quadraphonic, Augmented Wind Ensemble of the English Chamber
Orchestra, Johannes Somary, 'a suite drawn from the original version',
consisting of 11 pieces. 9 trumpets, soloist John Wilbraham.
2. Westminster Gold, stereo, Vienna State Opera Orchestra, Scherchen, 48
minutes of something unspecified. 'As basic sources we must acknowledge the
folloing: (five manuscripts). MCMLXX. This one seems to be the most
complete but neither on the jacket nor on the record is there any list of
movements.
3. Argo/Decca, 1972, Academy of St Martin-in-the-Fields, Neville Marriner
(who I read did not use period instruments then). Consisting of three suites,
in G, D and F, from one manuscript in the Fitzwilliam Museum.
Counting Menuet and Trio as two rather than one, there are 20 movements.
Fireworks Music on the same record.
4. MHS, digitally recorded, 1986 (I spoke too soon on dates above), Royal
Philharmonic under Yehudi Menuhin. Combined on one record with Fireworks
Music, Amaryllis Suite, but on the part of one side where it is located, they
fit in (in the arrangment by A. Baines) 13 movements. Nothing about original
instruments in any of the recordings.
Anthony Baines took the three suites and selected and edited and arranged them
to form a suite. His editing includes some alteration fo the original note
values and the addition of some ornaments and phrase markings. Baines himself
added optional timpani, trombone, flute, bassoon and clarinet parts, all of
which are used here.
Does MHS tend to use altered versions very often?
Any reason to keep anything but the Academy version?
One comment is that Handel might have composed various water musics at various
times and then got sort of confused together.
The only reference to period instruments is the Vanguard quadruphonic, in
which the augmented orchestra contains:
13 listed oboe players 'etc.', five bassoon players 'etc.' , two
contrabassoons, two serpents, lots of horns and trumpets. MCMLXXII
They chose to record only the best of the movements. 'it seems clear that
the Water Music was not all written at the same time and as one unit, why not
make up one's own suite as did Handel himself for a concert he conducted in
1741?' Possibly the D-Major movements were written in 1717 and the F-major
in 1715 for a different barge part. They 'utilize Handel's own magnificent
original scoring', including a harpsichord. Apparently only 2 oboes and one
bassoon were recorded in any one movement.
Please help me to choose two or three of these.
Back to the Brahms. I like all the versions and will have to listen more
closely.
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keesan
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response 142 of 194:
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Feb 2 17:59 UTC 2000 |
The Hatry-Handel sounded like a large mostly string orchestra, with lots of
variations in dynamics and tempo. More 19th century than Baroque.
Ormandy-Handel sounded much the same. That record also had three movements
from a Corelli trio sonata played by a string orchestra, with lots of
variations in tempo and dynamics.
Vanguard quadraphonic is playing Royal Fireworks with mostly winds and
percussion, 24 oboes, 12 bassoons. (The Water Music used 2 bassoons).
I doubt the string version of Fireworks would have been audible above the
fireworks. (Were there actual fireworks)?
We have a quadraphonic receiver, but not turntable. The photo inside shows
half the players on a balcony. Does one put two speakers overhead?
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keesan
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response 143 of 194:
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Feb 3 19:26 UTC 2000 |
It was an easy choice on Handel - the version with 24 oboes by English Chamber
Orchestra, and St. Martin in the Fields. The others did not sound a whole
lot like Baroque, more like late 19th century symphonies.
I found a few other oddities:
Chopin's piano pieces arranged for the Philadelphia Orchestra. The tunes
sounded a bit familiar but it was not an improvement.
Art of Fugue for woodwinds.
Bach's Trio Sonatas for a very loud pedal harpsichord by E. Power Biggs.
I have to choose a couple versions of Beethoven's 6th Symphony.
In rough chronological order:
1. Bruno Walter and Philadelphia Orchestra on nonbreakable vinylite, long
playing microgroove (as opposed to those large grooves on the breakable 78s)
Manufactured in Canada by Spartan of Canada, Limited, "Radio's Richest Voice".
(mono, of course. Columbia Masterworks. With notes about bubbling brooks.
When did Walter conduct Phila Orch?
2. William Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra. In stereo, with
multicolored cover (the last was pink on white). Original COMMAND master
recorded on 35 mm magnetic film. Command Classics. No notes except about
Steinberg, which imply this record is 1966 (early Stereo).
3. Quadraphonic (seventies?). Eugen Jochum and the London Symphony.
How many conductors have they had since 1950? Angel/EMI. 1978.
Notes about warm sunshine, gentle zephyrs, gurgle of brook, nightingale,
disappearing clouds, etc. EMI is a division of Capitol Industries. I have
a few old-looking records by Capitol.
4. Leonard Bernstein and Wiener Philharmonic on Deutsche Grammophon stereo
Trilingual notes that I can only read without my glasses. 1981.
Notes about the harmonies and motivic development.
5. Michael Tilson Thomas and English Chamber Orchestra (the same people who
brought us Handel in Quadraphonic with 24 oboes). 1979, CBS Masterworks.
Slightly worn but worth it. The notes ignore the bubbling brook, devote one
line to stabile [sic] tonalities, and several paragraphs to performance
practice. gut strings, lack of violin chin rests and cello spikes, pitch one
semitone lower, dotted-note rhythms.
Do these different approaches (emotional, rational, and technical) reflect
the attitudes of the composers, or simply fashions in playing?
I would probably keep the first (Walter) and the last two.
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keesan
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response 144 of 194:
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Feb 3 20:38 UTC 2000 |
Jochum and the London Symphony I found rather dull.
Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony were too loud for my taste.
Found another gem.
Heritage of the Baroque Volume 1. The Telemann Society Orchestra.
Richard Schulze conductor, Theodora Schulze oboe and recorder.....
Playing:
Richard Schulze: Variations of "What're ye' goin' to do wi' a drunken sailo?
Richard Schulze, Recorder; Dorothy Walters, harpsichord.
This set of variations is built on a slight modification of the well known
folk tune. Schulze is a famous seventeenth [sic] century composer who was
born in 1928. [sic!] [So was he the composer, the recorder player, or the
conductor?]
The Fairchild combination stereo/monaural record
....
In short, the Fairchild Combination Stereo/Monaural Disc will outperform any
other monaural or stereo record [rest is in italics] on its own ground!
Since we do not manufacture and stock separate monaural and stereo versoins
of its releases, we can pass considerabel savings on to you.
HOW IS THIS ACCOMPLISHED?
The Fairchild Compatible Stereo Disc is not "fake" stereo, nor it is produced
by any electronic "gimmickry". It is a true stereo record, with stereo
definition and depth actually superior to ordinary .......
Question: How does a stereo record differ from a mono record, and do we
believe the record jackets that say you can play a stereo record on monaural
equipment and it will sound better than monaural? Were there stereo records
that could not be played on a mono phonograph?
Kiwanis had, I think, two copies of Volume I of this series. A Musical
Heritage Society Compatible Stereo release. Did MHS improve over the years?
This jacket is burgundy embossed to look like leather, the embossing job being
poorer than that used by Concert Hall Society, who they may have been
imitating. One piece is by Michael Praetorius. (My brother informed me that
those people who died on his birthday were not composers except Verdi).
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md
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response 145 of 194:
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Feb 3 23:18 UTC 2000 |
Can't help you with the baroque stuff. I enjoy
having it on in the background once in a while,
but it doesn't grab my attention.
I'm married to my Toscanini recordings of the
Beethoven symphonies, but I also enjoy the period-
instrument performances by John Elliot Gardner,
whose name I might be misspelling.
I'm a sucker for schmaltzy orchestrations of Chopin.
I bet the Philadephia Orchestra exel at this, with
that luscious string sound Ormandy is said to have
imparted to them.
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keesan
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response 146 of 194:
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Feb 4 06:17 UTC 2000 |
This record is now available again at Kiwanis for about fifty cents, want it?
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md
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response 147 of 194:
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Feb 4 10:36 UTC 2000 |
I don't like to listen to LPs anymore, but thanks
anyway! You've motivated me to go out a buy a
schmaltzy CD or two, however.
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mary
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response 148 of 194:
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Feb 4 10:58 UTC 2000 |
A few days ago I bought a CD of the Emerson Quartet doing
Schubert's "Death and the Maiden". I'd heard their version
on the radio and was fairly blown away by the edgy bow
work involved. This is probably not introductory quartet
music but it isn't the late Beethoven quartets either.
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keesan
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response 149 of 194:
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Feb 6 18:40 UTC 2000 |
I just read that the six Bach trio sonatas which J. Power Biggs played on the
pedal harpsichord were in fact written not for separate instruments but for
pedal organ. The three parts were played by left hand, right hand, and feet.
(Donald Jay Grout and Claude V. Palisca, A History of Western Music)
Bach liked challenges.
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