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Grex > Agora46 > #131: New York City to open nation's first all-gay public high school in the fall | |
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| 25 new of 241 responses total. |
anderyn
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response 122 of 241:
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Aug 22 14:19 UTC 2003 |
That's a scary situation to be in. What did your parents do about it, btw?
I hope that you tried to get them to help you complain to the school
authorities. (I know that I didn't hear everything that went down, but when
I did hear about teasing and bullying, I talked to the teachers and worked
with them on ways to help my kids cope/make the others stop. Was not always
successful, but at least I think both my kids knew they had options.)
When I was in school, in the stone age, when they allowed physical punishments
of students (I know, it's not supposed to help, but...) bullies could be and
were paddled by the principal in front of the whole school. I recall with some
satisfaction the day one of the jocks was in fact paddled and humiliated for
bullying a geeky boy. While it may not have been politically correct or
whatever, man, it did stop him from being a BMOC for quite a while.
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novomit
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response 123 of 241:
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Aug 22 14:24 UTC 2003 |
Well, I told my parents, but they weren't of much help. Mom called the
principal's office a few times, but they never did much. Unless they catch
someone in the act of doing something, they aren't likely to make much of a
deal about it. And if you complain about things on a regular basis, some
people are likely to label you as a crybaby. Dad was under the bizarre
impression that I could defend myself physically against anyone. In addition,
i think a few of the teachers were afeard of these guys as well, and they
certainly weren;t going to get in the way.
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tod
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response 124 of 241:
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Aug 22 15:57 UTC 2003 |
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scott
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response 125 of 241:
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Aug 22 16:17 UTC 2003 |
Re 112: Yes, I was joking.
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novomit
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response 126 of 241:
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Aug 22 16:36 UTC 2003 |
If he would have came after me I would have shot him. And I do think there
is a difference between attacking innocent people and defending yourself. I
DID pursue it through the "right" channels. And the "right" channels ignored
me. So when you ask for assistance from the "proper authorities" and they
ignore you, what then? Just sit back and enjoy it like they tell the rape
victims, I guess.
Then again, when it is someone else who is under attack and not you, it is
a lot easier to say that.
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happyboy
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response 127 of 241:
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Aug 22 16:57 UTC 2003 |
so how is your therapy going now? not carrying anti-bully
guns these days, i hope?
how old are you?
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tod
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response 128 of 241:
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Aug 22 17:05 UTC 2003 |
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novomit
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response 129 of 241:
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Aug 22 17:12 UTC 2003 |
And if I had went to the police they would have asked for proof. Nobody was
going to admit that this guy was doing what he did because they were afraid
of them as well. I went to the principal, and my teachers a numbr of times.
What did you expect me to do? Ask a member of his gang to accompany to the
police station to admit what was going on? And believe me, if I could have
defended myself with my fists I would have. trying to do that against five
guys twice your size however is not an option. And I wasnt going to shoot if
he left me alone. The truth is, whether you like it or not, that most adults
ignore you when you tell them stuff. They think everything that happens in
the school yard is cute little kids' stuff. Well, it isn't. And if they won't
help you, you either continue to accept the abuse or put a stop to it. I did
the latter.
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tod
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response 130 of 241:
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Aug 22 17:22 UTC 2003 |
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jep
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response 131 of 241:
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Aug 22 17:27 UTC 2003 |
If novomit tried to get help, and couldn't, and couldn't come up with
another way to deal with his situation, what was he supposed to do?
Just suck it up?
For me it was 8th grade, too. I took a pen knife (hidden in a fake
looking wooden cigar) to school. I showed one of the kids who wouldn't
leave me alone that I had a knife. Later that day I was called to the
principal's office. He heard my story, and I was sent home for the
day. I was never again bothered by another kid in school.
The solution worked for me; it was the first effective thing I'd ever
done to end the harrassment that followed me through school up to that
point.
I don't think I should have taken a knife to school, and I don't think
novomit should have taken a gun. But then, I don't think either of us
should have been pushed to the point where we thought we needed a
weapon to just be left alone. I think school administrators, teachers
and parents need to step in to help kids like novomit and me to deal
with these types of problems.
I don't think novomit was responsible for someone who used to beat him
up, winding up in jail. Todd, are you nuts?
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novomit
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response 132 of 241:
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Aug 22 17:32 UTC 2003 |
Yes, I DO see something is wrong with pulling a deadly weapon. However, I
still am not hearing anything from you except impractical suggestions for what
I could have done to avoid it other than submit myself to abuse over and over
again. And no, I never told anyone it was a good idea to carry a gun to
school. the exact opposite is the case. Nonetheless, if you sense you are in
danger, you do something to avoid it. If a woman who carries a gun with her
for protection pulls a gun on a man who tries to rape her, who is most wrong?
The woman or the rapist? While an attack is occuring, filing a complain is
not an option. If someone broke into your house and began threatening you,
would you take steps to defend yourself, or tell the robber to hold on while
you call the cops? Got news for you . . . while you are busy calling the cops,
he will be busy kicking your arse. No, I didn't go to the cops. I doubt if
there are mahy other 14-year olds who would have done so either. And what
gives you the notion that they would have thought any different about it than
anyone else. They would have came, asked a few questions, wrote it off as a
playground dispute, left, and i would have got it even worse next time. You
have a great way of taking the victim and making them out to be the agressor.
THEY started it, not me. if they would have left me alone, there would have
been no need for any of this. but then again, I must have asked for it.
Minding your own business has a way of attracting trouble.
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novomit
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response 133 of 241:
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Aug 22 17:35 UTC 2003 |
I agree jep. Taking a knife or a gun to school is stupid. But when you dont
see where you have another option, you do what you have to do. And then things
can *really* get out of hand. i was lucky. So were you. But since the schools
were not made safe enough so that we couldnt get by by *not* doing these
things, I, at that age anyway, saw no other alternative.
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tod
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response 134 of 241:
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Aug 22 17:47 UTC 2003 |
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jep
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response 135 of 241:
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Aug 22 18:16 UTC 2003 |
Once a situation becomes intolerable, it doesn't matter if it gets
worse. The only thing that mattered to novomit, or me, or anyone else
in that situation, is that the situation has to change.
Novomit's gun did indeed change him from "hunted" to "hunter". So
what? He was the victim. Do you think he was obligated to remain a
victim, or that I was?
Let me tell you something, it is *bad* to be victimized, over and over
and on and on. It's bad if you're in an abusive marriage, it's bad if
you're a child being sexually abused by an adult, and it's bad if
you're a kid being harrassed by other kids. If you think it's bad to
take action on your own behalf in any of these situations, then it
seems to me, as I believe it does to novomit, that you prefer the
harrasser to the one being harrassed.
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tod
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response 136 of 241:
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Aug 22 18:30 UTC 2003 |
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slynne
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response 137 of 241:
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Aug 22 19:01 UTC 2003 |
Being bullied does not justify bringing a gun to school, much less
pulling it out and threatening someone with it. There is also a big
difference between the mostly verbal taunts novomit has described and a
rape. Frankly, there often isnt too much difference between a bully and
a victim except who happens to be in power at the moment. A gun turns
the victim into the bully real fast.
I totally get the helpless feelings one gets when one is a victim. And
I know it is especially hard when one has limited social skills and
thus has to endure the humiliation alone. I was bullied while in school
but soon learned that the best way to deal with it was to make friends.
In some cases, I even made friends with a former bully. A gang of five
boys will think twice before actually physically attacking another kid
who is hanging around 4-5 of his friends. They go for the loners
because they are easy and there isnt so much risk.
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tod
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response 138 of 241:
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Aug 22 19:13 UTC 2003 |
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jep
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response 139 of 241:
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Aug 22 19:30 UTC 2003 |
I'm going to listen to my son if he tells me of problems. I'm going to
to school with him and make sure the problems are dealt with, if there
are any. I'm going to make sure he knows, and the school knows, it's
not just him complaining, that it's me, too, and that it is not
acceptable for my child to be harrassed in school.
There is no way I would ever tolerate my son being afraid of going
outside during recess because he's being beaten up on the playground.
I went through that when I was his age. Thankfully, things are
different now than they were then. Playground supervisors and teachers
don't just ignore this type of situation, and parents pay attention to
kids more now than they did when I was a child.
It wasn't verbal harrassment which caused me to take a knife to school,
it was being hit (some days) and being convinced I was going to be hit
(other days). Yes, I would tell my son to do something else, rather
than putting up with that, if there were no other alternative available
to him. But I regard it as my duty to make sure there are other ways
to deal with that sort of situation before it gets to that point. I
wish someone had stepped up that way for me. I bet novomit would
rather have had an alternative, too.
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slynne
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response 140 of 241:
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Aug 22 19:47 UTC 2003 |
Here is the problem from the kid's point of view. Unless they are
constantly monitored by adults, the bully can get them alone. And going
to adults for help is often seen as a HUGE sign of weakness. Going to
adults is likely to make the problem worse. However, going to friends
is the opposite. It is a sign of strength. It isnt an accident that the
kids who get picked on and the kids who are the bullies are the ones
with the least social skills.
Of course, it is important for the adults in a situation to pay
attention to things. But there is a lot they will miss. And even if
they are able to keep things from getting physical, they dont really
address the root of the problem. Frankly, the verbal taunting is almost
as bad and impossible to control. Parents, school administrators, etc,
might be able to make kids not be violent but they cant make them be
nice.
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tod
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response 141 of 241:
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Aug 22 19:55 UTC 2003 |
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jep
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response 142 of 241:
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Aug 22 20:46 UTC 2003 |
Parents and other adults can certainly make kids behave politely and
act as if they're nice.
Taking weapons to school isn't generally seen as a sign of strength,
either. It's a sign of being desperate. In my case, it turned out to
be a way of crying out for help.
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tod
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response 143 of 241:
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Aug 22 22:20 UTC 2003 |
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jmsaul
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response 144 of 241:
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Aug 22 22:27 UTC 2003 |
What's your alternative, if they're getting beaten up on a regular basis and
the teachers won't do anything? You know the cops won't, and while they could
have studied martial arts or something, that wouldn't help much against five
guys.
Should they have sucked it up?
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tod
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response 145 of 241:
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Aug 22 22:31 UTC 2003 |
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jmsaul
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response 146 of 241:
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Aug 22 22:42 UTC 2003 |
We aren't talking about me here. I went to a private school, where the
teachers and staff didn't let that kind of shit happen. (I also went to
the dojo three nights a week, which gave me the right attitude to avoid
that kind of crap.)
Cops tend to ignore school roughness even now, and certainly would have
blown jep off when he was in high school. They had no interest in high
school kids punching each other out if it didn't do permanent damage.
They might now, but it wouldn't have been an option then.
I'm not saying bringing a weapon to school is right, I'm just asking what
you think they could have done instead that would actually have helped.
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