|
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 158 responses total. |
slynne
|
|
response 12 of 158:
| 
Jun 19 15:18 UTC 2007 |
I might not need help cooking it but I would love to come up with a
recipe for "people chow". I think that such a thing will help me
separate eating for pleasure and eating for fuel. Plus it sounds like it
could be really convenient.
|
jadecat
|
|
response 13 of 158:
|
Jun 19 15:39 UTC 2007 |
Could work for those times when cooking just isn't something a person
wants to do.
'Course, for me it would have to have potatoes in it. *laughs*
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 14 of 158:
|
Jun 19 18:10 UTC 2007 |
Good question about the difference between whole grain and refined
carbs, Sindi. As you can see from the shopping list, my grain intake is
almost all whole grains: rolled oats, whole wheat flour, cornmeal,
brown rice.
The dried lentils, navy beans, pintos, and split peas are also complex
carbohydrates. I don't have any juices on the list for the same reason:
juice is far more rapidly digested than the same liquid embedded in the
whole carrot, or orange, or whatever.
The 100 gram limit is changeable in this regard: it is tied to the
number of calories consumed. As long as the calories from carbohydrates
do not exceed 1/3 of the calories consumed, I can eat more.
In order to add carbohydrates, I would have to simultaneously add
protein and fat calories in equivalent amounts. I quickly go over
caloric equilibrium when I do that. Even at the maximum calorie level
of 1400 calories per day, I can only have 117 grams of carbohydrates. I
keep the 100 figure in my head because it's easy to remember.
|
keesan
|
|
response 15 of 158:
|
Jun 19 19:55 UTC 2007 |
So you are eating meat instead of beans in order to raise your fat intake?
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 16 of 158:
|
Jun 19 22:19 UTC 2007 |
Try reading more carefully, and I'll try to write more clearly.
Item 244:6
"The walnuts are there to boost my fat intake for the day, which is sometimes
hard to keep at 30-35% of calories."
Item 243:14
"I cannot reach my needed protein levels eating beans since the calories per
gram of protein are way too high."
Item 243:20
"Because I use beans as a meat alternative, it really works out to 1 starch,
3 veges, 1 fruit, and 6 additional meat choices. Because I eat relatively
low fat foods, I sometimes have to add in walnuts at the end of the day to
bring the percentages into balance."
I use walnuts and olive oil to raise fat intake. I use meat to raise protein
intake. I use the beans/grain group to raise carbohydrate intake.
If I only use the beans/grain group to meet protein needs, I exceed my daily
calorie limits.
My doctor recommended the protein intake that will keep me in zero nitrogen
balance.
My doctor does not use metric measurements in making recommendations to me.
I have lived in countries that use such a system and well understand the
difference between pounds and kilograms.
I also am familiar with international nutrition guidelines, having worked with
a UNICEF child nutrition organization.
The recommendation is based on research conducted after the WHO guidelines
were adopted in 1985.
|
keesan
|
|
response 17 of 158:
|
Jun 20 02:00 UTC 2007 |
Can you give a URL supporting your protein recommendations? I found mine on
the internet yesterday. Your doctor uses metric measurements if he/she told
you how many grams of protein to eat.
|
keesan
|
|
response 18 of 158:
|
Jun 20 19:23 UTC 2007 |
Internet research reveals that the US RDA is .8 g protein per kg ideal body
weight, which is 1/3 higher than most people need because it tries to include
97.5% of the population, including some who are unable to absorb nutrients
properly. Let's assume this diet is for a 55 year old 55 kg woman (I am
roughly that, so probably is Colleen). 121 lb. .8g/kg is .36/lb. 121x.36
= 37 g. Most people would be fine with 3/4 of that or about 28 g protein.
Protein requirements can be 1 or even 1.2 g/kg if you are doing body building
or endurance training, but not with normal activity.
The calorie requirements for this woman, height 5'6" (the site wanted that)
are for moderately active (gardening, housework) 1900 cal/day, and for very
active (jogging) 2100 cal/day.
Colleen mentions she needs 1500 cal/day, and that she is very active. I have
met Colleen and she is not 3/4 my size.
My numbers (28-37 g protein, 2100 calories) do not match hers (62-78 g?, 1500
calories).
I found an interesting site listing protein and calories contents of many
foods. You could get enough protein by eating only one grain or bean, with
only about half the daily required calories. You could get enough protein
by eating only vegetables. You cannot get enough from fruits, which are low
in protein and high in sugar, or from refined foods made with a lot of fat
or sugar. (This site claimed the RDA was double what most people need.)
Almost all the sites I found list .8 g/kg US RDA, which is 1/3 more than
most people need. The excess protein is used for energy and the nitrogen
part is excreted in the urine.
The dietary suggestions I hear are to 'reduce' fat intake to no more than 1/3,
not to raise it to that.
I also read that if you eat twice the RDA of protein it is bad for your
health. With an RDA of 37g/day, 74g/day is bad for your health. The
metabolic byproducts (ketones) are not good for you.
|
denise
|
|
response 19 of 158:
|
Jun 20 20:30 UTC 2007 |
What am I missing here? Based on the USDA recommendations of 0.8 g/kg
[for most of the people, so there are few exceptions to this
recommendation], how do you come up with this recommendation being 1/3
more of what most people need [of course, general recommendations very
to some extent by the amount of activity]?
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 20 of 158:
|
Jun 20 20:47 UTC 2007 |
Professional advice cannot be replaced by a casual internet search.
The protein and calorie levels listed above are correct. My doctor did not
misspeak; I did not misunderstand.
I had sufficiently long conversations that I am satisfied that the advice was
based on accurate, up-to-date, relevant information and data.
Your one-size-fits-all approach does not work and your numbers do not match
mine for this reason. You simply do not have enough information about the
situation to draw any conclusions about my doctor's advice.
Your final conclusion (74 g/day is bad for your health) is just WRONG. As long
as you have a zero nitrogen balance, you are eating the appropriate amount
of protein. While I appreciate your concern, please don't continue giving
amateur advice about my health.
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 21 of 158:
|
Jun 20 21:02 UTC 2007 |
Meanwhile, here are some of the recipes I've been using. I'm trying to find
interesting cabbage recipes that only use the ingredients on the shopping
list.
One treasure is an old Armenian cookbook given to me back in the 60s.
his recipe is adapted from a cookbook published by the Detroit women's chapter
of the Armenian Benevolent Union in 1949.
Mrs. Alex Manoogian was the chairman of the commitee, which also included
women named Abgarian, Berberian, Der Boghosian, Derderian, Horigian,
Keramedjian, Paklaian, Papelian, and Semerjian.
I got the cookbook from a next door neighbor named Ajemian, who gave me her
mother-inlaw's copy after she died.
Simple Armenian Cabbage
1 1/3 C onions, chopped
5 1/3 Tbsp brown rice
5 1/3 Tbsp olive oil
2 2/3 Tbsp parsley
1 Tbsp lemon juice
1 lb cabbage
Squeeze chopped onions with your hands to make them soft.
Mix with rice, oil, parsley and lemon juice.
Options: currants and pine nuts (about 4 tsp each per pound of cabbage).
Parboil cabbage leaves (originally grape leaves).
For truly simple, chop cabbage, layer bottom of casserole. Cover with layer
of filling, then another layer of cabbage.
For Derevi Sarma: approximately 4 leaves per serving.
Spread leaf on a small plate, wrong side up and stem toward you. Put 1
teaspoon of filling near the stem end. Fold over edges and roll away from
you.
Place some leaves in the bottom of the pan to prevent the Sarma from burning
and arrange the rolled leaves side by side in the pan and in two or three
layers.
Place a plate over the top to keep them in place. Add about 1 inch of water.
Cover pan and cook on slow fire for 1 1/2 hours or bake in medium oven.
After they are cooked, do not remove plate until Sarmas have cooled, to
prevent discoloring. Serve cold, sprinkled with olive oil to make them shine.
A highly modified sarma recipe.
White rice was used instead of brown
1 lemon yields 1.5 fl ounces juice. 1 cabbage leaf weighs about 1 ounce,
and substitutes for a grape leaf.
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 22 of 158:
|
Jun 20 21:04 UTC 2007 |
Simple Mayonnaise Coleslaw
2 C cabbage
3 Tbsp onions
4 tsp mayonnaise
1/2 tsp lemon juice
1/8 tsp dry mustard
Celery seeds pinch
Salt a few grains
Pepper a few grindings
Shred cabbage. Chop onion fine.
Mix mayonnaise, sugar, lemon juice, mustard, celery seeds, salt, and pepper
in large bowl.
Stir in cabbage, carrots, and onions.
Refrigerate at least 1 hour to blend flavors.
This is two servings (2 C raw cabbage).
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 23 of 158:
|
Jun 20 21:08 UTC 2007 |
Simple Sweet Sour Coleslaw
1 C shredded cabbage
1 Tbsp green peppers
1 Tbsp onions
2 tsp sugar
1 Tbsp cider vinegar
1 tsp olive oil
pinch dry mustard
pinch celery seeds
pinch salt
Mince onion, finely chop green peppers.
Mix sugar, salt, mustard, celery seed, vinegar, and oil.
Let come to boil over moderate head, stirring until sugar dissolves.
Remove from stove and chill. Once it's cold, pour over cabbage, green peppers
and onions.
1 C cabbage is one serving.
An alternate way to do this is to replace the olive oil with a slice of bacon.
Chop it, saute it, remove the crispy bits from the fat, then pour in the
sugar, salt, mustard, celery seed, and vinegar.
This time, pour the hot dressing over the vegetables.
You can serve this right away, or let it cool to room temperature.
|
edina
|
|
response 24 of 158:
|
Jun 20 21:09 UTC 2007 |
Re 21 My boss is Armenian and his last name is Berberian. He's one
of the pickiest eaters I know, but he does say I make a very good
baklava.
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 25 of 158:
|
Jun 20 21:14 UTC 2007 |
I'd love to have someone show me how to roll out those sheets of dough. I'm
generally fearless about trying new recipes, but that has stymied me.
|
edina
|
|
response 26 of 158:
|
Jun 20 21:46 UTC 2007 |
I buy the premade, already rolled out kind, that I can get in the
freezer. I was a bit scared at first, but then I started working with
it and got more comfortable....
Too bad I don't live in MI - we could make baklava together. ;-)
|
keesan
|
|
response 27 of 158:
|
Jun 20 22:33 UTC 2007 |
Several websites said the .8 g/kg was higher than most people needed because
they build in a 'safety factor' and most people need no more than .6 g.
Colleen, if your doctor is a nutrition expert, then you must be in the 2.5%
of people not covered by the RDA because of some health problem. I thought
readers of this item ought to know what is recommended for average people.
Lots of websites warn of the dangers of eating too much protein. One gave the
figure 2X the RDA as one not to exceed.
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 28 of 158:
|
Jun 20 23:55 UTC 2007 |
Next time you're here, I'd LOVE to do that, Brooke.
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 29 of 158:
|
Jun 21 01:06 UTC 2007 |
You do not have to have a health problem to individually tailor your
protein intake for your situation. Maintaining a zero nitrogen balance
is a far more accurate way to set your protein intake goals than by
using a statistic for a world-wide "average" person.
As I noted in response 16 "My doctor recommended the protein intake that
will keep me in zero nitrogen balance."
Rsp 27: "One gave the figure 2X the RDA as one not to exceed."
Even by this criterion, my intake goal is not "too much" protein.
Whatever your purpose in writing examples using my name, and assumptions
you made about my data, it certainly was not to demonstrate something
about an average person. You made the arguments and accusations far too
personal for that.
Please move any further conversations about vegetarian and vegan
nutritional requirements back to the item you set up for that
discussion. And leave me and my situation out of it. I do not need
your theorizing about my health, my nutritional status, or my dietary
needs.
|
keesan
|
|
response 30 of 158:
|
Jun 21 02:42 UTC 2007 |
The examples were actually for my height, weight, and age, which I think are
similar to yours. Are you getting blood tests to determine whether you are
eating more protein than you need? The protein RDA is just as applicable to
carnivores. What exactly are you taking as an 'accusation'?
|
cmcgee
|
|
response 31 of 158:
|
Jun 27 15:48 UTC 2007 |
After a conversation with Lynne, and another friend, I'm working on the
"people chow" idea.
Here are the guidelines so far:
Easy, easy, easy.
No thawing, no microwaving, no pouring of milk.
We've all agreed that on *people-chow* days, those simple things have
been barriers to eating. Even a "bowl-of-cereal + milk" is too much
effort.
Needs to store in a canister on the shelf. No freezing, no
refrigeration.
I've imposed a set of dietary guidelines: Needs to meet USDA
macronutrient spread for a 2000 calorie day: 91 gm protein, 271 gm
carbohydrates, 65 gms fat.
Converting those to % of calories we have 17.9% from protein, 53.3% from
carbohydrates, and 28.7% from fats. I rounded it to 20%, 55%, 25%.
So starting this weekend, my very-agreeable cooking partner has
volunteered to be the guinea pig for various concoctions that meet the
above criteria. When they are ready for beta testing, I'll add Lynne to
the test-subject pool.
Up for debate is whether pouring boiling water over the concoction is
too much trouble or not. (jadecat, I think your potato concoction will
need to have at least that much effort).
|
jadecat
|
|
response 32 of 158:
|
Jun 27 16:01 UTC 2007 |
Sounds good! And I think adding boiling water is an acceptable step, not
too much trouble. :)
|
slynne
|
|
response 33 of 158:
|
Jun 27 17:26 UTC 2007 |
Yay! I so like this idea because usually when I eat unhealthy foods it
is because of laziness or exhaustion or whatever. I mean at those
times, I dont even care if the food tastes good...I just want what is
easiest and fastest. Cereal and milk *would* be a good thing except
that milk doesnt stay fresh for too long so it involves regular
shopping. But boiling water is different and probably would not be too
much effort most times. But man, sometimes even that would be too much.
All I would want is to be able to come home, grab a handful of "people
chow" and fall down on the couch with it :)
|
keesan
|
|
response 34 of 158:
|
Jun 28 16:12 UTC 2007 |
You can microwave a potato in about 5 minutes, or store cooked ones.
|
slynne
|
|
response 35 of 158:
|
Jun 28 16:33 UTC 2007 |
Yeah. I sometimes microwave potatoes. But I dont like plain potatoes
much so I end up needing to put a lot of stuff on them (plain yogurt
being my favorite thing).
|
jadecat
|
|
response 36 of 158:
|
Jun 28 18:16 UTC 2007 |
Microwaving potatoes makes their skin funny, in my opinion. What I've
been known to do is microwave them for a couple minutes- then cook them
in the oven so as to be able to eat their skin too.
|