|
Grex > Agora47 > #34: Global warming claims at least 19000 dead in Europe in 2003 | |
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 49 responses total. |
gull
|
|
response 12 of 49:
| 
Sep 30 17:48 UTC 2003 |
You're confusing two issues. CFCs are related to the ozone hole, but
have nothing to do with global warming as far as I know.
|
carson
|
|
response 13 of 49:
|
Sep 30 23:20 UTC 2003 |
(CFCs deplete ozone and trap heat. carbon dioxide traps more heat in the
atmosphere, probably due to its relative volume. HCFCs and HFCs also trap
heat, but don't deplete ozone.)
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/archive/page.cfm?pageID=547
|
rcurl
|
|
response 14 of 49:
|
Sep 30 23:51 UTC 2003 |
While there are many chemicals that can act as greenhouse gases, the most
important currently in terms of trapping heat in the atmosphere are water,
carbon dioxide, methane, and CFCs (see
http://www.ieagreen.org.uk/ch4-1.htm). The warming itself increases the
water in the atmosphere, giving a positive feedback that enlarges the
effect of the others.
|
jep
|
|
response 15 of 49:
|
Oct 1 02:51 UTC 2003 |
re resp:11: The Plague in Europe, in three years (1347-1350), killed
maybe a third of the people in Europe. This led in turn to labor
shortages, which led to a lot of other effects, such as greater value
for laborers, a vast disruption in the existing social structure, and
eventually, popular rebellion, political upheaval, and more individual
rights.
When Patrick Henry said, "...give me liberty, or give me death!" he
was expressing what is perhaps a valid equation. If something killed
off 1/3 of the population of the world right now, in another 50 years
there'd probably be a lot less concern about the totalitarianism of
conglomerate corporations. The economic value of every person would
increase by a lot and the wealth would get a lot more spread out as a
result. There'd be more resources for everyone, too. Prices would
drop; those who lived would be able to buy a lot more stuff. Get rid
of 50,000 people at random from Ann Arbor and there'd be some pretty
swank houses left for the rest, for not much money.
|
tod
|
|
response 16 of 49:
|
Oct 1 04:22 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
|
jep
|
|
response 17 of 49:
|
Oct 1 15:57 UTC 2003 |
Call for volunteers?
|
klg
|
|
response 18 of 49:
|
Oct 1 16:27 UTC 2003 |
Mr. jep: If population were to decline by 1/3 how, would you suppose,
the level of economic output would be sustained in order to achieve the
result you assume?
|
slynne
|
|
response 19 of 49:
|
Oct 1 20:34 UTC 2003 |
Maybe the 1/3 that die off would be the least productive third.
|
carson
|
|
response 20 of 49:
|
Oct 1 21:41 UTC 2003 |
(just like alcohol and brain cells!)
|
gelinas
|
|
response 21 of 49:
|
Oct 2 02:39 UTC 2003 |
(Wouldn't matter; the equipment would still be there, the knowledge to run
it would still be there, so it won't take long to train up the survivors.
Besides, one of those megatrends is that fewer people are needed to keep up
modern production rates.)
|
tsty
|
|
response 22 of 49:
|
Oct 2 07:13 UTC 2003 |
if two poitns makes a straight line, it would tehn seem to be true
that france has as much concern for its elderly as it does for
the iraqui peopole - off on holiday and let the weak die.
/
|
mcnally
|
|
response 23 of 49:
|
Oct 2 07:50 UTC 2003 |
your logic seems less than compelling..
|
goose
|
|
response 24 of 49:
|
Oct 2 13:49 UTC 2003 |
...or logical...
|
keesan
|
|
response 25 of 49:
|
Oct 2 16:47 UTC 2003 |
After the plague there were a lot less people per acre and nobody had to try
to farm the really bad land.
|
tod
|
|
response 26 of 49:
|
Oct 2 17:00 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
|
drew
|
|
response 27 of 49:
|
Oct 2 20:44 UTC 2003 |
Might this be a good place to campaign for the legalization of drunk driving?
|
other
|
|
response 28 of 49:
|
Oct 3 02:05 UTC 2003 |
For its Malthusian benefits?
|
tsty
|
|
response 29 of 49:
|
Oct 3 04:33 UTC 2003 |
...or Malt-ian benefits ....
abotu the logic missed above ....
franch concern for elderly: zero therefore go off on holiday and
do nothing when they start dying in large quantities.
french concern for iraqui peopoe: zero therefore stay out on 'holiday'
(holiday umbrella created by others' wwii sacrifice)
and do nothing when/while iraquis continue dying in
large quantities - by gassing adn slaughter and
created famines
ignoring genocide 'over there' has been a vicious chrarcteristic of
most of the planet for most fo the history of mankind.
however, that is slowly coming to an end, thankfully.
'it takes a planet' to protect the family of mankind - and now the
capabilities exist to do so.
we 'missed' teh pogroms, teh ukraine, rwanda, cambodia, teh armenians,
ans several others (larger and/or smaller) but 'we' did stop
hitler, japan (see china, et al.), bosnia ... and now saddam.
verrrrrrry slowly we are, as a planet, getting this thing right.
logic problem? i think not.
comments?
|
mcnally
|
|
response 30 of 49:
|
Oct 3 04:39 UTC 2003 |
Perhaps I should just count my blessings that our noble and fearless
leader is apparently unaware of this dastardly French geriatricide,
for there's no telling what could happen if he took an interest in
liberating the suffering aged masses of France..
|
gull
|
|
response 31 of 49:
|
Oct 3 12:54 UTC 2003 |
Does France have oil? If not, I wouldn't worry.
|
murph
|
|
response 32 of 49:
|
Oct 3 16:19 UTC 2003 |
It's a good thing the Bush administration sees no need for collaboration with
France (or, really, much of anybody). This way, when we decide to liberate
France's oppressed Octagenarian minority, there's no risk of having
embarrassing pictures of Rummy shaking hands with French diplomats surface.
I mean, it would be tragic if evidence surfaced that the Reagan and GHWBush
administrations exported huge quantities of thermal underwear and space
heaters to France to be used in that nation's oppression and slaughter of its
elderly.
Hmmm. The analogy wears thin...
|
tod
|
|
response 33 of 49:
|
Oct 3 16:23 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
|
murph
|
|
response 34 of 49:
|
Oct 3 17:10 UTC 2003 |
These days I find myself disturbed by anything Bush does, no matter who he's
doing it with (or without). Aside from that, I think my level of
disturbedness depends more on what exactly the collaboration is on than who
it is with. While I don't see China as somebody we should be chumming around
with< i'm perfectly happy to work with them to prevent the War to End All
Nations That End in "Korea".
Russia's higher on my list of acceptable allies than China, but I'd be
happiest with a collaborator like, say, the UN.
|
happyboy
|
|
response 35 of 49:
|
Oct 3 18:01 UTC 2003 |
re33 putin frightens me.
|
tod
|
|
response 36 of 49:
|
Oct 3 18:30 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
|