response 118 of 150:

Jul 29 02:15 UTC 2003

on marijuana, just my two cents-- I haven't seen anything that proves 
it to be medicinally redeemable (you feel less pain because you're 
stoned; that's about it), but it is one of the more benign drugs out 
there.  Tobacco is nasty-- and it's legal.

On the marches-- damn dude, you're actually attending them or 
something?  Leave it alone!  I mean, fuck, I don't think most people 
see this stuff unless they go out looking for it or the occasional 
time it pops up in the media.  Now I will admit they do cavort about 
in lascivous ways at a lot of these events, but no one forced ya to go.

I do have my opinions about sexuality-- that often there is a lot of 
mingling emotional and abuse issues that are in the way.  Yeah, I'm 
one of those twerps that believes in reparative therapy and all that.  
But I definitely don't go around condemning the community about 
their 'sinful ways.'  They made their choice, and I made mine.  I hope 
there will be mutual respect, then.  In other words, you're preaching 
to the choir, here-- but you're not the music director.

There is a time to be principled and a time to be diplomatic.  I 
suggest diplomacy.

resp:116 Ironically, the relentless commercialism of the Fall/Winter 
season turns off some of the mainstream religious.  It seems like a 
big long profit campaign.  As far as tolerance and respect, we've 
adopted so many 'heathen' traditions thanks to the Catholic church (in 
the name of assimilation) that people should be more understanding in 
light of this knowledge.

To boot, so many are casually religious that the notion is pretty 
hypocritical.

response 120 of 150:

Jul 29 04:32 UTC 2003

Well, I am a heterosexual female who is not in a relationship at the
moment. And I get sick of straight couples constantly flaunting their
couple-ness... holding hands, making out, or squeezing each others'
butts as they walk in the mall. The whole world gives a message of "If
you're single, there's something wrong with you." But no one complains
about that.

Meanwhile, I know a gay male couple and a lesbian couple who both keep
clean and presentable homes, don't molest kids, treat their pets like
gold, don't go anywhere naked, don't really go to pride marches, don't
do drugs, don't go to bars or bathhouses. They pay taxes, volunteer for
civic projects, and don't flaunt their homosexuality in front of anyone,
whether at home or in public. And these couples both have stable,
committed, monogamous relationships.

I know people who smoke pot regularly for recreation. They do it in
their homes, alone. They don't have kids. They don't sell drugs to kids.
They do not go out in the streets if they've smoked. Nor do they drive.
The people I know who smoke it are otherwise law-abiding people whom I
know would not harm me or any other living creature. They hold down
steady jobs and pay bills. 

They don't go to bachelor parties or watch pornos-- not to my knowledge,
anyway. 

response 122 of 150:

Jul 29 06:40 UTC 2003

Yo, men, i was at a  "killer"  rave the other night (see how that word
just, offsets the others of its '''ilk'''?) and all the  pot heads were
not there but the people instead were methkiddies, you know, the ones
who stay up all night killing bugs?  yeah, them ones.  well, anyway,
here i were and they was there too-- right next to me-- and i shouted in
their faces,

-- drugs support terrorism!
-- nah, pulling like a pendulum some girl's underwear.

and then they all started circling 'round me, rubbing their arteries, as
methkiddies learn to do, until their hearts were all in sync.  now, as
you would believe, a reverberation started,

-- ow, man,
-- crack, said his bones

and then all the E crew started biting and knawing on me.

response 124 of 150:

Jul 29 07:07 UTC 2003

I look upon marriage as a contract between two persons that is underwritten
and then enforced by the state. It is therefore not possible to "get married
without state approval" because marriage is that state-sponsored contract.
If you don't want the state sponsored one, which we call marriage, then you
can enter into a private contract. It's like choosing a roofing company for
your house. Different contracts have different costs, benefits, warranties,
etc. If you don't like the terms of the state one, choose another.

I recognize that historically there were two government entities, the state
and the church, which made marriage a three-way contract. This, however,
added a lot of unnecessary strings to what is the fundamental interest of the
state in offering benefits in echange for the contract - some degree of
regulation of reproduction.

response 126 of 150:

Jul 29 14:18 UTC 2003

Bruce - okay i accept i probably went a bit too far there, so having done i
can only sincerely apologise; you got my back up (my fault as much as yours)
and when that happens i have an unfortunate tendency to respond in kind.

I accept that you don't feel comfortable with homosexuality, but i think
perhaps you might be more comfortable in yourself if you just ignored it. I
have experience myself of being pissed off that some people can act in certain
(to my mind unreasonable) ways; i just had to accept that i can't individually
lay down the law on what people do in their private lives; i hope that at
least we can agree to disagree and accept (anybody got a thesaurus) that we
have different views on this.

I don't by any means wish you "shut up" because you have views different from
mine, or despise your position in law enforcement. What I *do* think is that
perhaps you are preaching to the unconvertible by making your views known in
such a forthright manner here on Grex; it is a fact of life that, whilst Grex
and systems like it try to be "a meeting of people with nothing in common",
as i think someone else put it earlier, there will in any community be a core
of like-minded members. That doesn't mean you should shut up, it just means
that you might get less of a favourable hearing than you would in other, more
conservative fora. I believe it was George Washington who as President made
it known that he was opposed to "factions", but he had the fortune/misfortune
to live his life in what was then a very young country, which due to its
history was still in the process of defining itself, and whose people
presumably were more concerned with what they were *not* (i.e. British) as
with what they were. In such circumstances it is easier for a community to
pull together than it is for Americans (or indeed Brits) today. Case in point
- myself and my Irish friends *never* discuss politics, because
Hiberno-English history is *very* divisive. (And yes, they are true friends).

I don't believe however that Grex or its members are in any way trying to
censor your beliefs; and if i thought it wee doing this to anyone, i wouldn't
be so supportive (spiritually) of Grex as I am. I don't see anyone deleting
threads.

A last word on my "coming out", if i may.

I believe this has been misinterpreted. It wasn't an attempt to shove anything
down anyone's face, but I am saddened that people feel that Grex has a
"party-line" culture. It was, therefore, an attempt to kickstart a process
of frankness - and it seems to have backfired.

I hope that we can agree (or agree to disagree) that people have a
*constitutional* right to express their (divergent) opinions, and behave in
amanner of their choosing *insofar as it does not injure other people*. I
think sometimes people just find it hard to judge where the line between one
and the other is, and that most of the fighting is on these fringes. It
saddens me.

Finally, i hope we can put this thread to rest - soon!

response 128 of 150:

Jul 29 15:43 UTC 2003

Re #127 - yes, but it *isn't* marketed as "Black Men Teaching White Men How
to Play Basketball". which i believe was the point alluded to

response 130 of 150:

Jul 29 17:00 UTC 2003

Is there a show showing Asians showing White guys how to get to get good
grades? what is it marketed as? I presume you mean Japanese or Chinese, or
Indians; In Thailand kids get good grades by getting their parents to come
thru exam room windows with the answers (no, I'm not joking; it happened).

response 138 of 150:

Jul 30 17:20 UTC 2003

Most teachers wouldn't hug these days for fear of charges being filed. 
Jim didn't get slapped with a charge, but it could have happened. 

(Sometimes it doesn't matter if the kids like it or not, it's what the 
parents perceived that is the determining factor)

response 140 of 150:

Aug 12 21:27 UTC 2003

Re #70: "If God exists, he has stated that such behavior is immoral and
wrong."

You mean, "if my particular God exists, and I'm interpreting his
writings correctly, such behavior is immoral and wrong."

I also think it's pretty circular to fault homosexuals for not having
stable relationships when society denies them the tools to recognize and
reinforce those relationships.


Re #119: It amazes me that you seem to somehow blame homosexuals for
everything sexually explicit in the world.  Do you really think that
only lesbians buy those "Girls Gone Wild" tapes that are advertised
incessantly on TV? ;>


Re #123: Actually there are lots of legal benefits you can't get except
through marriage.  If you don't believe me, try to get your employer's
health insurance to cover someone you're not married to.  Also, getting
the legal benefits of marriage involves a lot of effort and lawyer time
for homosexuals, while heterosexuals don't have to go through the hassle.


Re #138: No kidding.  And it's not just teachers.  Given all the
high-profile cases there have been I'd never open a day care center in
today's world; it seems to almost guarantee a sexual abuse lawsuit.  And
once you're accused of that, your reputation is ruined.  It doesn't
matter if you're found not guilty or not.