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|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 222 responses total. |
scg
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response 116 of 222:
| 
Nov 16 07:43 UTC 2000 |
IWLTA that CNN has no concept of Midwestern geography:
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/11/15/scaffold.collapse.02.ap/index.html
Check out the dateline.
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goose
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response 117 of 222:
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Nov 16 13:15 UTC 2000 |
I don't get it Steve, what did I miss?
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bru
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response 118 of 222:
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Nov 16 13:39 UTC 2000 |
you lost me..
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rcurl
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response 119 of 222:
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Nov 16 16:13 UTC 2000 |
Me neither..but the article did call the water "icy", and later said it
was 53 F: that's not "icy".
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aaron
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response 120 of 222:
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Nov 16 16:53 UTC 2000 |
They probably had an error, which they later corrected. Yesterday, they
had a glaring typo in their lead headline on their homepage.
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ric
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response 121 of 222:
|
Nov 16 18:17 UTC 2000 |
re 119 - well, that may be, but 53 degree water is just as likely to cause
hypothermia (hyper?) as 35 degree water.
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carson
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response 122 of 222:
|
Nov 16 18:36 UTC 2000 |
(Detroit was listed as being in Illinois.)
(I don't know how fair it is to blame CNN. they pulled it from an AP
newsfeed.)
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jor
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response 123 of 222:
|
Nov 16 19:18 UTC 2000 |
Couple years ago there was some news in the UP that got
national attention. It was strange to hear the
network announcers saying "upper peninsula" very
carefully and mysteriously like it was on Mars.
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scg
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response 124 of 222:
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Nov 16 19:46 UTC 2000 |
Ok, it now says "Detroit, Michigan." It didn't yesterday.
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rcurl
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response 125 of 222:
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Nov 16 22:05 UTC 2000 |
Hypo - (means "low"). Cavers get along just fine at 53 F, for considerable
time. 35 F is another matter. There is some formula for average lifespan
in water at different temps...I'll see if I can find it.
|
mcnally
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response 126 of 222:
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Nov 16 22:42 UTC 2000 |
If you could survive much longer than an hour in 53F water without
special insulation, I'd be surprised..
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ric
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response 127 of 222:
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Nov 16 23:15 UTC 2000 |
There's a huge difference between being a "caver", and being immersed in
water. Clothes do no good insulating you from the cold when you're immersed
in water. And I don't know of many nudist spelunkers.
|
mdw
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response 128 of 222:
|
Nov 17 04:28 UTC 2000 |
The survival time in 35 F water is probably closer to 10 minutes -
significantly shorter than a possible 1 hour in 53 F. Individual
survival time will vary greatly - fat people in general should do better
than thin people, nutrition and general health will make a difference,
etc. Wind, water currents, and sun may make a difference as well.
|
janc
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response 129 of 222:
|
Nov 17 04:34 UTC 2000 |
Even a nude spelunker would be surrounded by air, not water. Water soaks up
body heat much more efficiently than air, I think.
http://www.tntwebcraft.com/ccso/hypothermia.htm says survival time in 50
degree water depends strongly on what you do. "Drown-proofing" where you
float face-down and pop up to breath every now and then is one of the worst
options because with your head in the water you lose a lot of heat fast.
Survival time for an average person, wearing light clothes is 1.5 hours if
Drown-proofing, and 2.0 hours if treading water. With a life vest, you can
just hold still, and increase your survival time to 2.7 hours. Any kind of
activity that uses energy, including swimming, shortens your survival time.
If you can assume a fetal position while being supported by a life vest, or
huddle with other people, survival time goes up to about 4 hours. Larger
people last longer than smaller people, fat people slower than thin people.
|
moneymak
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response 130 of 222:
|
Nov 17 04:39 UTC 2000 |
Enjoy this life while you are in time dudes...
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rcurl
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response 131 of 222:
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Nov 17 07:06 UTC 2000 |
Survival time at 53 F (average) is 1.5 to 4.2 hours. with the range
representing "low probability of death" to "high probability of death".
See
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/information_and_education/
water_safety/bgcldwat.html
At 35 F it gets reduced to 0.5 to 1.5 hours.
Cavers immerse themselves in water for long periods. Passages are water
filled. One must be aware of the dangers of hypothermia. I only once get
into semi-serious hypothermia after a 1/2hour crawl in 45 F water and then
*sitting around*. With activity one warms up pretty fast.
You heat the water on your clothes. It is more comfortable to be
in wet clothes than to be naked. I've tried both. (Jan is uninformed
about caving.)
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ric
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response 132 of 222:
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Nov 17 14:54 UTC 2000 |
You only heat the water on your clothes if you're not still immersed in water.
Duh.
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rcurl
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response 133 of 222:
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Nov 17 15:50 UTC 2000 |
That is correct. I would not recommend immersion in 53 F water (about the
water temperature in Indiana caves) for more than 2-3 hours, or if signs
of hypothermia appear.
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janc
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response 134 of 222:
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Nov 17 17:01 UTC 2000 |
Actualy clothes can extend your survival time even if immersed in water,
depending on the clothes. Cotton won't do much, but some snythetics hold
a lot of heat even when wet. People into sea kayaking worry about this kind
of thing.
In any case, the water the worker fell into was probably not so cold as to
be a major issue. If he was alive, an hour or two would have been plenty of
time for rescue workers to find him. If he was injured or stunned by the fall
or pinned underwater, then the water temperature was the least of his
problems.
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carson
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response 135 of 222:
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Nov 17 23:13 UTC 2000 |
(when did Steve pick up the "etc" login? I wish I'd thought of it!)
|
other
|
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response 136 of 222:
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Nov 18 05:57 UTC 2000 |
Finger info for user etc
Login: etc Name: baski
Directory: /c/e/t/etc Shell: /bin/csh
Last login Tue Oct 17 20:55 (EST) on ttyr6 from 128.96.2.134
No unread mail
No Plan.
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katie
|
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response 137 of 222:
|
Nov 20 23:31 UTC 2000 |
If you're not busy Friday night, day after Thanksgiving, come
on out to Green Wood Coffee House for Katie Geddes and The Usual
Suspects. 8 pm, $10. Food and drink available.
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carson
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response 138 of 222:
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Nov 22 20:59 UTC 2000 |
(if a relevant party is available sometime tomorrow, I can make a
cookie jar switch.)
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albaugh
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response 139 of 222:
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Nov 22 21:48 UTC 2000 |
As a diversion from the election wars, for those of you with graphical web
browsers, check out:
http://microscopy.fsu.edu/optics/tutorials/java/powersof10/index.html
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scg
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response 140 of 222:
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Nov 23 08:07 UTC 2000 |
I'm in Ann Arbor.
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