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| 25 new of 65 responses total. |
keesan
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response 11 of 65:
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Mar 19 16:39 UTC 2002 |
It is plain Dolby, not Dolby B.
We have tape decks with either plain Dolby, or Dolby B and C. If we tape with
plain Dolby can we play back with C (or B?) and vice versa? I read somewhere
that Dolby (original) was more expensive so was dropped in favor of B and
then C is better than B. Then there is DBX (on one machine)- if we tape with
that how would we play back on other machines?
Tape selector - EX, SX, ZX ??? Normal (I), II, IV?
How to set bias and equ for the different tape types?
We have one machine that recognizes them automatically, some are labelled I
II III IV, some Fe CrO2 Metal, some just bias and equ. We have a couple
machines with adjustable bias - what do we do with that, if anything?
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krj
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response 12 of 65:
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Mar 19 20:28 UTC 2002 |
I haven't got time to do this justice... I will have to come back
and write more later.
Dolby and dbx Noise Reduction both work by compressing parts of the
signal on recording and expanding them on playback. When the signal is
expanded on playback, the volume of the tape hiss, relative
to the signal, is reduced. The systems differ in their choice
of what to compress.
dbx is a straight 2:1 - 1:2 dynamic range compression
scheme. This system was very effective
at nearly elminating tape hiss, but it was so
aggressive that it sometimes introduced some audible modulation
of the tape hiss, which was called "pumping" or "breathing."
It was pretty much agreed by everyone that dbx tapes were
intolerable to listen to on machines which did not have dbx
decoding. I never worked with dbx equipment.
In the Dolby techniques, the amount of compression done to
the signal varies with the audio frequency. The higher
the frequency -- the more likely the signal is to get lost in tape
hiss -- the more compression is done. This is not as effective
as dbx, but it also means that a Dolby-encoded tape can be played
back without decoding, and most people won't object too much to the
resulting sound -- it's a little "bright" because the high frequencies
have been boosted. This is considerably more complicated than dbx
and to work best, it requires that the tape deck be properly tuned
to the tape being used.
Dolby A is a professional noise reduction system. You will not find
it in home audio equipment.
Dolby B was the first Dolby noise reduction product for home use.
Any cassette deck you find with a switch marked just "Dolby"
is controlling "Dolby B" circuitry. Dolby B was introduced maybe
around 1973, for a guess without looking it up.
Dolby B gets about 10db of tape hiss reduction -- much less
than dbx, but the tapes sound OK if played on equipment without Dolby.
Dolby C was the second home version, introduced maybe around 1979.
In a perfectly working system it got 10dB more tape hiss reduction,
but because it was such an aggressive system it was more audible
when there were small tape/machine equalization problems,
and Dolby C tapes sounded somewhat shrill when played without
decoding.
Dolby S came out after I had stopped paying attention to
cassette technology.
Tape selector switches of EX, SX, and ZX tell me you've got your hands
on a Nakamichi brand tape deck, because those were Nakamichi's
own names for the tape formats. Some Nakamichi models in good
working order are quite collectible, selling for hundreds of
dollars. Nakamichi was usually regarded as the premier manufacturer
of cassette decks from the early 1970s into the CD era.
However, because Nakamichi and the rest of the world disagreed on
how equalization was to be done, tapes recorded on Nakamichi machines
sound "dull" on other manufacturer's machines. I have considerable
experience with this; I lived with or owned three Nakamichi recorders
back in the cassette era.
Tape formulations: roughly equivalent, on each line:
Type I = Normal = Ferric = EX
Type II = Chrome or Chrome-Equivalent = CrO2 = SX
Type III = Ferro-Chrome = FeCrO2 <-- this formulation failed in the market
Type IV = Metal = ZX
Type IV / Metal tapes can be played back correctly with a
switch in the Type II/Chrome position, but they cannot be
so recorded.
Actually *explaining* them will have to wait.
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krj
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response 13 of 65:
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Mar 19 20:55 UTC 2002 |
Essentially I'm trying to write a complete tutorial on cassette
technology and this may take a while.... :)
For a practical summary on dbx and the various flavors of Dolby:
my suggestion is that you record with Dolby B switched on
(that's marked as "dolby" on some older decks) and play back with
either Dolby B or no noise reduction, depending on which your
ears like best. That's what I'm doing these days.
Tape bias and equalization: hoo boy, that's gonna take a while to
explain...
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keesan
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response 14 of 65:
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Mar 19 21:46 UTC 2002 |
We have a Kenwood with Bias Preset and Auto Bias that apparently detects the
tape type as that is not a choice. Yes it was Nakamichi with the EX SX ZX.
We have about 20 tape decks, some of which work. CrO2 is sometimes just
labelled 'high' - high bias? Some tapes are labelled 120 (I, normal?) and
some 70 (II, IV?) - is this bias or equiv?
We will skip dbx since only one deck has that and take your advice to use
Dolby (B) rather than C. Don't have any S. Jim likes to hear things brighter
- perhaps his hearing is shot from too much hammering, but he turns on Dolby
during play for tapes not recorded with it.
One deck has settings Normal (120 msec), FeCR (70), CrO2 (70) and Metal (70).
Is the FeCr same as FeCrO2 that you mentioned as type III? Some decks require
you to set both bias and equ and various combinations work for I, II and IV.
For instance both buttons out for I, both in for IV, one in and one out for
II. A couple of these decks are not understandable.
If you are interested, Ken, you are welcome to come over and admire and even
play with our tape deck collection. We are still trying to fix one good one
to the point where it: plays, records (both channels), and the door works.
We are replacing belts, tires, motors, springs and other bits and pieces.
Were home tape decks first popular around 1973, or even earlier (without
Dolby)?
We have encountered a variety of autoreverse mechanisms. Usually the head
and tape stay put and the spindles/rollers switch direction, either by some
system of gears, or by acctually reversing motor direction (would this be by
changing polarity to a DC motor?). One deck swivels the play head, and we
ran across one that actually turned the tape over for you, a very early model.
MCM electronics sells new autoreverse play heads for $2, or the swivelling
type for slightly more (also IEEE printer cables for about $2-3, of the type
that our friend paid $25 for recently).
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jaklumen
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response 15 of 65:
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Mar 20 03:09 UTC 2002 |
resp:8 I typed in impedance, but wasn't sure if that was right. Ok,
I learned something new now. Ok, Rane, if a system calls for 8ohm-
16ohm, will there be a match only with 8 or 16? Or can you have a
match with impedance in between, as I did?
Ok, Ken-- on the subject of Dolby, where does HX Pro fit in?
and just on a separate note, do noise reduction systems exist for
TV/VCRs any more that are *separate* units? I've noticed the really
huge TVs with surround sound systems often have dbx noise reduction.
I also remember Radio Shack carrying a separate audio decoder (I
think) that allowed for stereo hookup and noise reduction, but I
haven't seen it in years.
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krj
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response 16 of 65:
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Mar 20 17:58 UTC 2002 |
Hoo boy. I can't explain Dolby HX Pro without covering "bias."
And I'm not even sure I can explain that very well; I may go out
and look for a URL to point you to.
In brief: Dolby HX Pro is not a noise reduction system at all.
"HX" stands for Headroom Extension; it is a circuit to reduce
the bias current a bit when there is lots of high frequency
energy present in the musical signal, to try and stop too much total
high-frequency signal from going into the record heads. Dolby HX Pro
is only applied in the recording process; no decoding playback
is required.
My last high-quality cassette deck had HX Pro, but I eventually
concluded it didn't help the sound and I turned it off.
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jaklumen
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response 17 of 65:
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Mar 20 23:27 UTC 2002 |
All right then, if HX Pro is only applied in the recording process,
why would a deck need that system?
I think I'm somewhat familiar with bias-- many cassette types apply
most of the bias in the midrange. It seems to emphasize more of
that 'warm' sound the cassette medium is known for (as opposed to LPs,
which generally tend to be 'bright'.) But I know that's grossly
oversimplifying things.
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krj
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response 18 of 65:
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Mar 21 17:25 UTC 2002 |
The marketing for HX Pro argued that when too much high-energy signal
went into the record heads or tape that there was some "self-erasing"
going on, resulting in less-than-optimal high frequency performance.
So that's why it was called "HX Pro," for Headroom Extension.
Once the system accomplished its goal of getting a hotter high-frequency
signal onto the tape, there is no need for any special processing
to play it back.
You know, the more I write this stuff, the more I remember why
I'm recording stuff digitally these days...
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jaklumen
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response 19 of 65:
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Mar 22 02:37 UTC 2002 |
well, that's not a bad thing, actually. Me, I just got a better
cassette deck because I was patching a little compact stereo to a
receiver for the deck.
Having Dolby playback is nice. And yes, HX Pro sounds fine on just
about any good deck.
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tpryan
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response 20 of 65:
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Mar 22 23:11 UTC 2002 |
I still have an outboard Dolby box. Control knobs on it
to control things. Came with a reel to reel tape and as cassette
tape for calibrations.
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keesan
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response 21 of 65:
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Mar 23 03:43 UTC 2002 |
Tim is there any stereo gadget that you don't have and would like to get?
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tpryan
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response 22 of 65:
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Mar 23 23:49 UTC 2002 |
I haven't had an eight track recorder for some time.
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keesan
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response 23 of 65:
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Mar 24 04:03 UTC 2002 |
Does that mean you want to own one again? I know where to get one, cheap.
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davel
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response 24 of 65:
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Mar 24 12:37 UTC 2002 |
Heh. Watch out, Tim.
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tpryan
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response 25 of 65:
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Mar 24 13:32 UTC 2002 |
I think even radio shack has stopped selling blank 8-track tapes.
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keesan
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response 26 of 65:
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Mar 24 15:52 UTC 2002 |
I know where you can get cheap used ones.
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davel
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response 27 of 65:
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Mar 25 01:55 UTC 2002 |
What did I say? 8-{)]
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mcnally
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response 28 of 65:
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Mar 27 10:09 UTC 2002 |
Since this is the "Equipment for Playing [Recorded] Music" item,
I thought I might mention my recent purchase of an Apple iPod.
I'll write a longer review of it later, but basically the iPod
is an amazing device with a couple of annoying omissions and
restrictions that keep it from being perfect. Still, I'm quite
happy with it, and can recommend it with only minor reservations.
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keesan
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response 29 of 65:
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Mar 27 16:18 UTC 2002 |
We have discovered that the only tape decks with timer switches (you set them
to off, record, or play) are the ones were you cannot press down the regular
play or record switch and have it stay down. The newer ones are solenoids
(feather-touch) and the timer switch is not needed on the older ones - you
can just push down the pertinent lever, plug the deck into a timer, turn on
power, and when the timer reaches the right time the deck should go on.
This is theory, anyway.
We have one (broken) deck with HXPro which is automatically used, and then
also a choice of Dolby B or C or neither. It is autoreverse and plays okay
in one direction but superfast in the other. Pinch roller not pinching.
Jim is fixing small headphones this week. They come in 20,24, and 32 ohms
and you have to turn the boombox way up to hear them. Is this to prevent
people from making themselves deaf? Ordinary speakers are 4-16 ohms.
The larger the headphones, the less you have to turn up the boombox.
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krj
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response 30 of 65:
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Oct 14 03:09 UTC 2002 |
I can't find the previous discussion of MP3 portable players, so I'll
use this item. I broke down today and got a RioVolt CD/MP3 player.
It was stickered at $99.99, scanned for $10 less than that; the sales
clerk waved a 10% coupon under the scanner and the price went down some
more, and *then* there is a $20 rebate which I darn well better send
in this time. So, what, $60-$65 final cost? Yay Best Buy. Thanks
to mcnally for encouraging me to keep looking.
There were a frustrating ten minutes of trying to figure out the
folder navigation, and then it all made sense.
Sounds great on these Spanish folk MP3s by a band called Na Lua
which I've been playing; certainly those files sound better on the
the Rio than they do on Winamp on the computers I've got around.
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jep
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response 31 of 65:
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Oct 14 03:28 UTC 2002 |
I've been thinking about getting one of those for my son. I figured we
can take it in the car, too. With a couple of MP3 CDs, we'll have
enough music for a weekend trip to my brother's place south of
Nashville.
I saw one in one of the Sunday circulars for $40, with car kit. I hope
that means a cigarette lighter plug-in and not a cassette tape adapter,
since I don't have a cassette player in my car.
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krj
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response 32 of 65:
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Oct 14 06:18 UTC 2002 |
"car kit" generally means a cigarette lighter plug-in for power, and
a cassette tape adapter to carry the audio from the portable unit
into the car stereo. Most people's cigarette lighters are not connected
to the car stereo for output, but you might have a special model. :)
As John doesn't have a cassette tape player, he'll most likely
have to get a small radio transmitter which can be picked up by
your car's FM radio; I have no experience with those.
We were discussing these toys in another item somewhere recently,
but where?
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rcurl
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response 33 of 65:
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Oct 14 06:27 UTC 2002 |
I have used such a tape/CD FM transmitter. They work quite well. Their
only problem is that if you enter an area where there is a regular
FM transmitter, you need to pick another frequency. This doesn't happen
often.
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mcnally
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response 34 of 65:
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Oct 14 10:15 UTC 2002 |
I've got one of the FM-transmitter doodads that I use with my iPod on
car trips. It seemed to work pretty well on my trip from Washington
down to Utah and around the national parks of the southwest but it was
a complete failure on a later road-trip from western Michigan to
southeastern Minnesota via Chicago. From about Benton Harbor, MI,
to Madison, WI, the device wasn't worth using -- about every 20 minutes
I had to retune to an unused frequency as I came within range of some
new low-power FM station.
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mcnally
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response 35 of 65:
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Oct 14 10:17 UTC 2002 |
re #30: For that price I'm presuming you didn't get the black model with
the larger display, extra buffer memory, and FM tuner. That's the only
Rio/Volt model I'm familiar with, but I liked it. The lower cost models,
though much more attractively priced, seemed decidedly not as nice.
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