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Grex > Coop8 > #32: The Grex's Landlords item | |
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| Author |
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| 25 new of 269 responses total. |
carson
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response 100 of 269:
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May 12 16:56 UTC 1996 |
don't know if this means anything, but:
The computers that were Chinet caught fire sometime Friday. Most of
the apartment building was burned down. There's been a temporary
Chinet setup with more information, but I haven't been able to access
it with my password, and the Web server isn't up yet. I wish I could
provide more details; hell, I wish I _had_ more.
Anyway, it's something to be watchful for.
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steve
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response 101 of 269:
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May 12 16:58 UTC 1996 |
I did that, several years ago. The problem is, we're so small
that we need to appeal to their helpfulness, rather than having it
be a business transaction. I believe I got someone who was like
that at Peter Allen associates, but I lost my paper notes on it.
I can try again. I just don't think we'll be able to find anything
in our price range. Even $100/mo is tiny peanuts for a commercial
entity. I think our best bet is to talk to people like Nick, who
own buildings and rent stuff out.
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mdw
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response 102 of 269:
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May 12 20:04 UTC 1996 |
I suspect the kind of space we're looking for isn't worth enough to
Peter Allen to cover the administrative overhead. But we might try
looking for smaller independently owned office buildings.
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gregc
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response 103 of 269:
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May 12 22:10 UTC 1996 |
So Steve, tell us more about how you burned down Chinet several years ago...
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kerouac
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response 104 of 269:
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May 12 22:48 UTC 1996 |
Thats too bad about Chinet. This is the sort of thing that might
make it hard to find a place with affordable rent. Filling a room with
computer equipment, telephone lines, and electrical wires obviously
increases the potential for a fire hazard. Some landlords might reject
grex because of the insurance risk.
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kerouac
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response 105 of 269:
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May 12 23:56 UTC 1996 |
In fact I'm wondering (given the chinet situation) if the lease says Grex
is responsible for damages if a chinet type fire occurs and the house
burns down. Without insurance, the landlords might say the individual
members of the board are liable for what cyberspace .inc itself cannot
pay.
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srw
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response 106 of 269:
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May 13 01:34 UTC 1996 |
The lease doesn't address that question. Tenants are not held responsible
unless there is negligence involved (which there wouldn't be). Board members
are not responsible for the finances of Grex as it is incorporated.
So I'm not too worried about it.
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mdw
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response 107 of 269:
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May 13 01:49 UTC 1996 |
Chinet's owner also smokes. None of the grex staff smoke. The average
house is filled with all sorts of things that can start a fire, kitchen
appliances, electric blankets, gas heaters, and the like. In the
commercial field, a restaurant is at far more risk than anything grex
does.
Anyone can sue anybody; but the whole point of a corporation is to limit
liability; the board members shouldn't be especially liable unless it
can be shown that they were somehow negligient. In this case, we've
rented what is ostensibly fit property for our business; presumably the
landlords have suitable insurance for their property; and if they
haven't, it would in fact be impossible for us to insure their house for
them. It wouldn't hurt to check with an insurance agent, just in case,
but my suspicion is that there's nothing to be done here.
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scg
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response 108 of 269:
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May 13 05:09 UTC 1996 |
Did Chinet cause the fire, or burn with the building? The ChiNet temporary
site says only that the building burned, taking the computers with it.
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n8nxf
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response 109 of 269:
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May 13 13:00 UTC 1996 |
Perhaps the Tenants Union could suggest a space for Grex?
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janc
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response 110 of 269:
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May 13 14:50 UTC 1996 |
I thought the Chinet fire was started by Mrs O'Leary's cow.
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nephi
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response 111 of 269:
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May 13 16:42 UTC 1996 |
(Hey now!!! I'm still reading this conferenece, and you can't pin *that* one
one me! 8^)
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brighn
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response 112 of 269:
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May 13 22:14 UTC 1996 |
moo?
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popcorn
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response 113 of 269:
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May 14 04:12 UTC 1996 |
Aha! So nephi *admits* to burning down Chinet.... The truth comes out at
last.
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brighn
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response 114 of 269:
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May 14 04:13 UTC 1996 |
No, I think Nephi is confessing to burning down Old Chicago.
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carson
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response 115 of 269:
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May 14 12:47 UTC 1996 |
re #108: Dunno yet. chamberl's report on M-Net says Chinet started it,
but he's a notoriously biased and, therefore, unreliable
source. I wasn't even going to believe the story about Chinet
until I tried to log in.
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gregc
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response 116 of 269:
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May 14 13:40 UTC 1996 |
I suspect the original story:
"The building that Chinet was in, burned down and took Chinet with it."
Got turned into:
"Chinet caught fire and burned down the whole building."
That's a standard path folklore/embellishment/rumors tend to take. Take
a
bad story and make it worse. Or, with the lack of information, assume
the worst. But either way, it's not hard to see how the first story could
easily become the second.
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n8nxf
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response 117 of 269:
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May 14 14:29 UTC 1996 |
Worse depends on perspective.
Worse form Chinet perspective: Chinet caught fire and burnt down building.
Worse form Building perspective: Building caught fire and burnt everyhing.
Worse from fires perspective: The fire was put out.
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rickyb
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response 118 of 269:
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May 14 15:36 UTC 1996 |
well, I'm back...
CAT = Cable Access Television. They also run a dial-up, free BBS but it has
no internet connection. CAT is an arm of the City Clerks Office, and has City
Council Information. They have been housed at the fire-station next to the
Hands-On Museum. Soon, they will move to the Detroit Edison bldg on Mian.
My thinking was two-fold...
On the one hand, there will be the space CAT _did_ occupy, next door
to the Museum, a small part of which might be available/usable to grex. Since
this is a City Bldg, I think offering some benefit to the Hands-On Museum
would be the best bet to get considered. They have a computer room on the
top floor, and might benefit by some level of internet access there...OTOH,
just having email (and maybe telnet) for the_staff_ of the Museum would likely
be a befefit to them.
When CAT moves to the Edison Bldg they will be taking up a good deal of space.
Most likely they will use all they can get their hands on, but, if grex could
somehow back up to the location of their BBS machine and run a wire to it for
the purpose of providing them internet e-mail (if nothing else) that may be
enough of an incentive for them to offer a small space cheap.
Both locations, presumable, would be available for 24hr access, within certain
security issue limits (designated persons, limited keys, sign-in and out after
hours, etc). Both could be considered stable and "permanent" as far as that
can be counted on. Life is not permanent, however.
Commercial office space in Ann Arbor is _abundant_, especially if you have
the kinds of flexibility as grex. However, most commercial realtors would
likely be unwilling to bother with a 'peanut sized' income in light of
potential liability issues (ie; fire, etc). It can't hurt to ask around,
though, you never know what you may find. Swisher Realty has _lots_ of the
commercial property locked up. They tend to be expensive, but John Swisher
III is a practical man and would rather get _something_ for a hole in the wall
space than nothing with its vacancy. There is a small office bldg on Main
Street, just south of Packard, on the West side of the street, where he has
had a for lease sign out for several months...might be something there.
Best bet might be placing a "wanted to rent" ad in the snooze. Lay out the
minimal requirements, and minimal rent desired. You might just get some
landlord around town reading it and giving you a call...and a good deal.
re; insurance. I think grex should have insurance to cover itself and its
BoD. Certainly the BoD is only 'liable' if they act without good cause or
are negligent. Insurance can cover them even if negligent, provided they act
in good faith, to the best of their abilities. Also, the insurance would
cover such issues as loss due to fire, flood, acts of god which are not
otherwise covered under a landlords insurance. My business insurance even
covers loss/recovery of _data_, media and the like, under certain specified
conditions. You also need coverage for personal injury liability in case
someone slips and falls, gets a serious electric shock, laceration,
etc...while performing volunteer services for grex. You don't expect these
things, but that's when you need to be insured. Isn't that what life
insurance is all about as well? And, most commercial landlords will require
a basic business insurance policy in the lease anyway. Reciprocal good faith.
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brighn
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response 119 of 269:
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May 14 15:53 UTC 1996 |
Frankly, all this confusion about the fire and gossip and such
sounds like bull on the Chinet shop. =}
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davel
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response 120 of 269:
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May 14 17:21 UTC 1996 |
But it was Mrs. O'Leary's *cow* that burned down Chicago! It's not really
all that hard to tell a cow from a bull, folks.
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rcurl
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response 121 of 269:
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May 14 19:16 UTC 1996 |
BoD insurance is expensive - nearly doubles the cost of liability insurance.
Also, it is a much lower priority. The first thing is to have liability
insurance so that you have the insurance company defending the *corporation*.
That mostly takes care of defending the directors. Then, everyone with
umbrella coverage on their homeowners, is insured for serving on the board
of a non-profit corporation. Property damage *to others* usually goes along
with liability insurance; insuring your own property is another premium in
your policy. I think Grex should start with liability insurance.
It wasn't the *cow*, it was the *lamp* that burned Chicago. If the lamp
had been some Cyalumes, nothing would have happened.
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adbarr
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response 122 of 269:
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May 14 22:23 UTC 1996 |
Er, actually, it was the flame from the lamp that started the conflagration.
The O'Learys were reactionaries and refused to use flourescent lighting.
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scg
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response 123 of 269:
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May 15 03:11 UTC 1996 |
One thing to keep in mind is that while space is expensive, so is network
bandwidth. Our net connection is loaded enough already that I don't think
we could afford to trade part of it for space. I like the "wanted to rent"
newspaper ad idea.
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dpc
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response 124 of 269:
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May 16 00:35 UTC 1996 |
I like the idea of Grex sharing space and maybe other stuff with Arbornet.
We both *have* to move soon.
Food for thought. Yum!
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