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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 152 responses total. |
janc
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response 100 of 152:
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Oct 2 17:10 UTC 1995 |
I wonder if agora could be split into three conferences along these lines:
grex conference:
system problems, announcments, help items
banter conference:
humor and tom-foolery
agora conference:
current events, other headier discussion
Everyone would get an initial .cflist with all three conferences. Each would
have a three month re-start cycle, but offset so that one conference restarts
each month.
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janc
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response 101 of 152:
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Oct 2 17:11 UTC 1995 |
Oh...and fair witnesses of these three conferences would be brutal about
moving items between these three. Nothing would ever be linked between
them.
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selena
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response 102 of 152:
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Oct 2 17:26 UTC 1995 |
What would that help? Newusers would still have to deal with them.
Mlady, and everyone.. I already apologized to scg in party, but I am
sorry for causing such a fuss. I loved barbara, and it just plain HURT
to see her login in again.
Why so many of you are against locking down logins I do
NOT understand.
And, as for a cflist-builindg script being too much for
newusers.. hey it was a newuser that asked for it, up there!
Also, maybe you could just put it in front of picospan, that
would only activate if it's a newuser.
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davel
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response 103 of 152:
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Oct 3 01:12 UTC 1995 |
Well, I recently watched a new user run newuser. His main reaction was
something like "why do I have to go through all this stuff?!?!". This one
was fairly computer-literate, & not confused by the funny-keys questions,
merely annoyed by the time it all took. In the past I've seen naive users
run it, & they have invariably been bewildered.
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steve
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response 104 of 152:
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Oct 3 02:39 UTC 1995 |
I do understand Selena. Thats why I'm torn on the issue.
Jan, I don't think splitting Agora up into three pieces
would really do any good. Can you imagine the little newcommer,
all excited that his/her first item on Grex has been around for
a day now, and is all ready to see the responses to the item...
... only to find it gone. Pity them if they aren't in the
other two conferences where the item was moved to.
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janc
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response 105 of 152:
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Oct 3 03:14 UTC 1995 |
There'd be an item in each conference frozen so only the fairwitness can
respond saying things like "Item 78 on 'Waltzing with Bears' moved to
the banter conference."
Since one segment would be restarted every month, the total size of the
three would never be as large as the current agora at it's biggest, though
all items would still have the same 1.5 month average lifetime that they
currently have.
The moving of items helps encourage people to read all three, keeping them
all fairly active.
Having "grex news" in a separate conference makes it easier for people to
keep up on that without having to wade through tons of agora.
People who, like mlady and katie, dislike banter, don't have to read
through it to find more serious stuff.
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janc
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response 106 of 152:
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Oct 3 03:15 UTC 1995 |
I don't see why login names should be reserved. Should we reserve real names
too?
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selena
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response 107 of 152:
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Oct 3 04:57 UTC 1995 |
jan- see later in coop, here on that.
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robh
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response 108 of 152:
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Oct 3 12:11 UTC 1995 |
I've been thinking that maybe we should just have a single,
heavily moderated "intro" conference. The f-w could link
over a *small* amount of interesting items from several
other conferences, and that can be the first conference the
new folks see. If they like that, they can take their
chances with Agora.
(I'm still toying with the idea of putting "Celebrating
18 months of an Agora-free lifestyle" in my .sig file.)
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adbarr
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response 109 of 152:
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Oct 3 12:12 UTC 1995 |
Perhaps we could sell names? I'll offer "Arnold" to the first taker,
cheap. Re: "banter" -- if Grex evolves into being a system where everything
is taken as being a matter of serious human concern, I will migrate to
another system. Guess we may have to crank up the humor factor on HVCN.
Without laughter and joy and a good dose of sarcastic reality, this
will become extremely boring. We all tend to take ourselves entirely
too seriously. Come on folks, enjoy the joke. It is on us.
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adbarr
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response 110 of 152:
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Oct 3 12:13 UTC 1995 |
Someone is up early!
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popcorn
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response 111 of 152:
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Oct 3 13:14 UTC 1995 |
(Re 108: Hey, I thought this past Summer agora was a particularly good one.
You don't know what you're missing!)
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rcurl
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response 112 of 152:
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Oct 3 15:49 UTC 1995 |
Here is a related challenge:
A lot of people do not have the time, and perhaps more the inclination, to
be "on" every day. For a lot of people that get involved in organizations,
it initially amounts to one evening a month, where they get together,
discuss the subjects that brought the group together, maybe have a
program, and some snacks.....but its one night a month; it is interesting
and fun; and some members will want to become more involved, and join a
committee, or join in some single activity between meetings - or run for
the board (which will mean two nights a month devoted to that activity).
How can Grex be structured so that people can, if they choose, also have a
satisfying experience, which will make them want to return again and
again, and perhaps become more deeply involved - by participating (logging
in) once per month?
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mlady
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response 113 of 152:
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Oct 3 16:34 UTC 1995 |
Rane- first off, try letting dead people keep their damn logins,
so that people like me don't have to put up with all this stuff. You
and srw, above, say that you shouldn't make these into "fetishes".
Lokk, and I'm sorry if you don't like the tone, but, THERE IS ALREADY A
HELL OF A LOT ATTACHED TO THIS LOGIN! I find out more and more everytime
I come here, and most of it is not pleasant! Why let these things come back,
when it only gives unsuspecting new people like me a headache and a
half? If you are really worried about your users, maybe you should
make sure the landmines are cleared!
Popcorn- listen that space for more, q for quit junk I tried,
and it didn't do anything but pput me at respond or pass, and as
I THOUGHT those were my options, I tried both, and nothing happened,
except the deluge of nonsense! And no, i Don't care what it is
supposed to do, your bbs didn't just give me the first and last items,
it ran me through the entire damn conference!
So, because I didn't know how to stop the madness, I was stuck
Does that make enough sense?
lilmo, I do what to make a cflist??
Simple it isn't.
Davel- look, I don't know what your friend who had problems with
new user was going on about- that was easy. It asked questions, I gave
answers, or ignored them as I felt like. it was beautiful. That's why I want
a menu! It offers me a choice, or even 80, and I choose what I want.
That's MUCH better than doing whatever it was lilmo had in mind.
Katie, you think I was rude? Maybe if you get put somewhere you don't
want to be, with no way out, you'd get a little feisty too.
look, I wouldn't even be this mad, but you guys just had at me.
I'm going to respond, if I'm talked about.
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katie
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response 114 of 152:
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Oct 3 18:46 UTC 1995 |
Um, respond-or-pass *is* the way out.
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rcurl
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response 115 of 152:
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Oct 3 19:01 UTC 1995 |
I know its hard to believe mlady, but we are not talking about you. Your
experience is a symptom of a problem we have been talking "to death". Your
less, shall we say submissive 8->, personality has actually helped push
the discussion further. Now, if only you will put up with it for a while
longer...
On the matter of the "damn logins" - my goal in keeping at it is to try to
reach a concensus that we will *not* make a big fuss about new users using
old logins. If we had that attitude to start with, you would not have had
to put up with all this stuff. I hope you realize that I am arguing in
favor of your right to use your login since it was no longer in use. I
don't think there should be any fuss about it.
This system is very open, has few rules, talks about a lot more than it
does anything about, and *usually* leaves people alone to the extent they
wish to be. We are only having a brief abberation in that.
Do you like being mad? :)
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sidhe
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response 116 of 152:
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Oct 3 20:36 UTC 1995 |
You know, this is all very amusing and concerning, simultaneously.
Now, what _I_ read from mlady, it sounded like she took
what the prompt "respond or pass" says as being the only options
available.. and that _would_ trap you until the end of the conference.
You know, Rane, I seem to have my doubts that she _wants_
hte account anymore, and perhaps it is not a right she wants to have.
Mlady, from me to you, I am sorry that this has wound up so
poorly. I do not use agora either, but I have yet to build a .cflist
either, mostly as I'm certain I'd make a mess of the operation.
Instead, I merely ignore agora on the way in, and join <thenextone>
at the ok: prompt. As an experienced member of grex, I would very much
like to be able to use a .cflist builder/editor, and I'm amused at the
"no, we can't do that" attitude here, when other suggestions that affect
grex's entire being are awarded "let's do it" without haldf the
naysaying.
I was a friend of Barbara, the first mlady. I will have to
say that it is uncomfortable in the extreme to see the login back in
use. However, as you caught us with our backs to the firing squad,
I see no reason why you should have to give it up, unless you
really want to.
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lilmo
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response 117 of 152:
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Oct 3 20:59 UTC 1995 |
mlady- I assume you know how to type, since you seem to be doing just fine.
1. A the next prompt, type the following (w/o th quotes): "help conf". This
will give you a list of the conferences (cf's) on Grex. Each of these cf
names has a brief description with it. Have I lost you yet?
2. Type "pico .cflist". Type the NAMES of the cf's you would like to be
in, with each name on a separate line. For example:
iq
coop
books
info
agora
helpers
3. Execute the "exit" command for Pico, which is a Ctrl-X. Type the
letter "y" to save the file, and hit the return key to use the name ".cflist"
That's all there is to it !!! The next time you enter Picospan, you will
find yourself in the first cf listed in .cflist. when you are done with
that cf, type "n", or "next" at the "Ok:" prompt, and you will go to the
next cf on the list.
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mlady
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response 118 of 152:
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Oct 4 01:21 UTC 1995 |
What in the hell is pico?
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mlady
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response 119 of 152:
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Oct 4 01:41 UTC 1995 |
Let me guess- if you get thrown from a conference while you're
in it, it'll pretend you weren't here.
That's okay, I have more to say, anyway. Look, I can only guess that
pico and picospan have something to do with each other, but how do you do this
at the menu? As far as I can tell, you don't, and that's stupid, if these
cflists are so handy. How come you don't just quit trying to TELL me how
to do it, and make another menu-program? I mean, I know it'll be awhile in
doing, but right now it looks like I'm getting the brush-off, BIG time.
Sidhe- thanks, and you don't have to apologize- just do something
about it. Cool of you to say that, though.
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janc
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response 120 of 152:
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Oct 4 02:39 UTC 1995 |
Maybe it should say "Respond, Pass or Help? "
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lilmo
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response 121 of 152:
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Oct 4 05:12 UTC 1995 |
Okay, mlady, I'm sorry if it wounds like I'm giving you the brush-off, I was
a bit miffed when I wrote that last response, and took it out on you; I
apologize. How do you do it from a menu? I haven't the foggiest, since I
don't use a menu. However, I know that you can use this method from any "Ok:"
or "Respond or Pass?" prompt.
Actually, pico and PicoSpan have nothing to do with one another. Picospan
is a conferencing system, and pico is the text editor that came with the mail
program pine. (UNIX programs have funny names, don't they? It never ceases
to amaze me.)
I hope that I have been helpful.
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selena
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response 122 of 152:
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Oct 4 05:35 UTC 1995 |
Now, try and tell her how to *use* pico..
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scg
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response 123 of 152:
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Oct 4 05:36 UTC 1995 |
Writing a menu cflist builder is easier said than done. It won't be that
difficult technically, but I or anybody else who does it will have to spend
a lot of volunteer time doing it -- time that many of don't have because we
have other time consuming jobs that we need to do in order to get money, which
is needed to buy food. I would be happy to program a menu .cflist builder,
but most of the time I spend programming is spent doing programming I get paid
for. If I'm going to do such a thing, I'll have to take a break from that
to do it, so it isn't going to happen right away. In the mean time you have
a couple of choices. You can either wait for me to get around to writing a
menu based .cflist builder or for somebody to beat me to it, or you can follow
the instructions to do it manually, and have your .cflist built a lot sooner.
If Grex had a paid staff to do things like that, your request that it bedone
quickly might be reasonable, but on a volunteer run system it just doesn't
work that way.
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popcorn
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response 124 of 152:
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Oct 4 11:36 UTC 1995 |
Cflist cookbook:
1. Type "!pico .cflist"
2. Type the names of the conferences you want to join. It's best to
press Enter after each one, though I think you don't have to. You can
use your arrow keys to move your cursor around the screen, if you need to.
3. Type control-X, to exit from Pico.
4. Say Yes, when pico asks if you want to save your changes.
To use the .cflist, type "next" to go from conference to conference in your
list. It will automatically skip over the conferences on the list that have
no new responses.
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