response 101 of 199:

Mar 28 04:55 UTC 2002

Re 99.  MOST employers pay employees more than they minimally have to,
perhaps partly to improve retention, but mostly so they can be more
selective about who they hire.  This is NOT an experiment which died with
Henry Ford.

The auto workers in Flint and the coal miners in West Virginia were earning
vastly more than any reasonable minimum wage would ever be.  As documented,
e.g., in the recent "Nickels and Dimes" book, minimum wage workers are
undercompensated compared to even the barest concept of what it costs to
live these days.

response 103 of 199:

Mar 28 15:08 UTC 2002

I spent a few years living on minimum wage and there were some things 
Ehrenreich missed in her book. Ways that I was able to survive on those 
low wages that she didnt try like having lots of roommates and whatnot. 
Nevertheless, I have to agree that minimum wage workers (and actually 
Ehrenreich was looking at workers who made in the $7-$9 range which is 
above the legally mandated minimum wage) don't make enough money to 
support more than just themselves and really they can only support 
themselves well if they team up with others in the same income level. I 
mean, if you can get 4 people to share a 2 bedroom apartment and if 
they really watch their money and dont spend frivolously, they can have 
an adequate standard of living. 

response 105 of 199:

Mar 28 16:14 UTC 2002

One advantage the minimum-wage worker has:  they can work more hours
and get more money.  Or they can quit and get a new job.  The only way
to get more money in the Service is to get a second job.  And you can
only quit when it the contract expires (and maybe not even then: the
"exigencies of the Service", y'know.)  (yeah, they can get promoted, too,
but how fast depends upon circumstances not always under their control.)

response 107 of 199:

Mar 28 21:35 UTC 2002

Like any other kind of work, military service is something that some people
see as their calling in life.  It's awful when artists and nurses and teachers
have trouble making ends meet, and it's just as bad when soldiers have that
problem.  I have trouble picturing saying to someone, "You know, you shouldn't
complain about poor teacher's wages -- after all, you chose that job."

response 109 of 199:

Mar 28 23:59 UTC 2002

Re #101:  Again:  Why should the minimum wage be a living wage?
Why should anyone expect to be able to support more than a very
spartan lifestyle on unskilled work? 

When enough people move beyond unskilled work, it's possible
that the wage will rise (due to demand for labor) to a living
wage.  Burger King has offered $9.00/hour in Ann Arbor, so it
is far from impossible.

response 111 of 199:

Mar 29 01:23 UTC 2002

right, there should be a maximum wage. 

response 113 of 199:

Mar 29 01:39 UTC 2002

and the vietnamese kicked our asses.

response 115 of 199:

Mar 29 05:40 UTC 2002

...whereas jp2's whiny ass...

response 117 of 199:

Mar 29 14:03 UTC 2002

Re #104: Don't forget the substantial amounts of money the military 
services pay in college tuition, in your benefit analysis.

Re #109: If we need people to do minimum wage type jobs, how do we 
reconcile that with the fact that we aren't paying them enough to live 
on?  If I had a business that required trucks for moving goods around, 
and I decided to only pay for 50% of the maintenance those vehicles 
required, people would say I was pretty stupid.  Of course, there's a 
cheaper supply of replacement people than there is replacement trucks.

response 119 of 199:

Mar 29 14:32 UTC 2002

re#107 I dont have a problem with raising teacher's wages because it 
leads to more competition for those jobs which should lead to higher 
quality people in the positions. You get what you pay for. Although 
because of non monetary intangibles aka non-compensatory wage 
differentials, teachers do tend to be something of a bargain. People do 
choose to take that job for less money *because* it is so rewarding in 
other ways. This is apparently true in many other fields. Social 
workers make even less than teachers but maybe find the work rewarding. 
Let's face it, wage isnt just about value to society of a particular 
job. 

re#116 You know, Democracy and Socialism can work well together. 
Personally, I would LOVE to see out country start putting more money 
into social welfare programs. No need for a maximum wage or minimum 
wage. Let the market take care of wages and let the government take 
care of poor people. 

re#117 So you think that businesses have a social responsibility 
towards their workers? I dont think that is realistic. This is why I 
think it is the government's job to take care of workers. Passing labor 
laws (that actually get enforced) is one way for the government to take 
charge. 

re#117-118 - I know a couple of people who never would have gone to 
college at all if it were not for the GI bill. I know they would say it 
is a great program. I would say at least it is better than nothing and 
it should be counted as part of the total compensation those in the 
military receive (as well as any VA benefits). 

response 123 of 199:

Mar 29 20:43 UTC 2002

Capitalism is very political based on the truth that those with the most 
money have the most influence on the politicians. Which is not quite very 
democratic...