response 10 of 78:

Nov 7 19:22 UTC 2003

Jim's experience with the military was that it rewarded successful dishonesty
by making rules that were impossible to follow.  You had to study after curfew
if you wanted to pass, for instance.

response 12 of 78:

Nov 7 20:02 UTC 2003

Does not considerable blame for the "scandals" lie at the feet of those 
who have ill-advisedly chosen to turn an institution that is meant to 
fight and defend into one that is just another tool for social 
engineering and cultural experimentation?  If anything has deterred 
many young men from serving, it is very possible that having to 
accept "dumbed down" training standards for women could be the reason.

response 14 of 78:

Nov 7 20:08 UTC 2003

i'd be down with the national park gig but couldn't
you combine military activity with trash collection
like shooting litterbugs at glacier national park
or something?

response 18 of 78:

Nov 7 20:55 UTC 2003

Re #12: Should we return to the days of an all-male military, then?  Or
maybe an all-white military?  How far back should we go?

response 22 of 78:

Nov 7 22:02 UTC 2003

re #19: you're going to get me in trouble for laughing too loud at work.  :)

As I believe I have said elsewhere, the main reason (aside from having
my head ripped off and my neck shat down, that is) I will never join the
military is that I am not willing to surrender my personal authority
over the morality of my actions.  If I am to be put in a situation where
I have to decide whether or not to shoot another human being, I am damn
well going to reserve the right to make my own decision about whether or
not to do it; I will not allow anyone else the right to order me to do it.  
  That's the main problem I have with the idea of mandatory national
service.  If you have your choice of, say, active military service or
cleaning up trash in national parks, that's one thing, but to be forced
into military service, ugh.  

response 24 of 78:

Nov 8 01:32 UTC 2003

(You still have that personal responsibility, flem.  If the order is unlawful,
disobey it.)

Since the switch to an all-volunteer force, the standards have gone up.
When I was recruiting, I had to get three high school graduates to accept
one drop-out.  The actual percentage of high school graduates was much
higher, somewhere around 90 per cent.  I doubt it's gotten easier.

response 26 of 78:

Nov 8 03:16 UTC 2003

Then follow your conscience and take your lumps.

Just like M. Ali did, back in the mid-1960s.

response 28 of 78:

Nov 8 04:01 UTC 2003

Richard, Tailhook was 12 years ago, and the Navy did an about face after
that, instituting a "zero tolerance" policy on sexual harrassment.  I
haven't been in the military, but what I've heard is that in the Navy, at
least, sexual harrassment is now taken very seriously.

response 32 of 78:

Nov 8 05:57 UTC 2003

My understanding is that drill sergeants are no longer allowed to 
verbally abuse recruits, let alone lay hands on them.  The sergeants 
are supposed to respect the recruits.

When I was in Army basic training (1982), they were allowed to say 
pretty much anything they wanted, but not to lay on hands.  They 
pretty much *didn't* lay on hands.  I was never struck by a drill 
sergeant.  So, if I understand policy correctly, they're probably 
actually not verbally assaulting recruits.  I find it a little hard to 
imagine... but my father found it hard to imagine they didn't hit.  We 
both have trouble imagining a non-smoking Army, women in combat, and 
the integration of gays into the military.

People seem to often assume that military culture cannot and *will* 
not change, but that's not at all a correct assumption.

re resp:6: Currently, there are National Guard and Reservists who have 
been sent overseas for a 1 year tour of duty.  They thought they were 
going for a 6 week to 3 month tour, and then that got extended after 
they'd reported.  One of the effects is likely to be an exodus from 
the Reserves/Guard as these people are sent home.  If the exodus is 
big enough, and there aren't enough replacements, one possible effect 
is reinstatement of the draft.  I don't think it likely, and I don't 
think it's a good idea, but it's possible.

Socially, there's already a small movement in favor of reinstituting 
the draft.  The military is made up of disproportionate numbers of 
minorities and people from poor families.  Some want to correct that 
by picking a representative cross-section of young men.

re resp:27: I have a co-worker with a daughter at West Point.  I'm 
told there is still some discomfort with women in the service 
academies, but it's getting less all the time.  There's a *lot* less 
tolerance for harrassment.

response 34 of 78:

Nov 8 08:35 UTC 2003

Fags can't integrate into the military, because any military with fags 
isn't a military at all.