|
|
| Author |
Message |
mta
|
|
Wiccan/Pagan/Other
| 
Feb 24 22:59 UTC 1999 |
I havea very basic question here. I think it's been touched on in some
previous items, but not discussed in depth.
Background: I've thought of myself as "a pagan" and a "hearth witch" for
decades. I never really thought much more about labels than that, but if
asked whether I was a Wiccan, my answer was generally "No, not exactly".
See, I assumed Wiccan was a specific path of paganism -- sort of like Baptists
are a specific sect of Christianity. I think of myself as a generic pagan
rather than the more specific Wiccan because I borrow freely from whatever
traditions speak to me. Sure, there are Wiccan aspects to how I worship.
There are also Hindu and native American aspects, and many others.
Recently however, I was told that I was being dishonest in not calling myself
Wiccan because that's what I am...
I dion't deny it -- I'm just not sure how to separate what a wiccan believes
from everything else I believe. I have no idea whether I'm a Wiccan or not.
So...can anyone try to give me a hand in understanding what distinguishes a
Wiccan from any other Pagan tradition?
Thanks!
|
| 25 responses total. |
jazz
|
|
response 1 of 25:
|
Feb 25 03:26 UTC 1999 |
It's a good question. I can think of several definitions as I
understand them, and I'm sure I could find a dozen people in this conference
alone who could correct me, or disagree with me, or take offence.
Wicca's always had Celtic overtones - though most of the serious Celtic
believers I've met perfer to think of themselves as Wittan, instead - but also
conveys anything descended from Gerald Gardner, and can cover many different
theologies.
Don't let them give you a hard time about labels; the pagan community
hasn't agreed upon one yet. :)
|
kami
|
|
response 2 of 25:
|
Feb 25 04:58 UTC 1999 |
Aaaaarrrrgh! (sorry- overreacting, not actually upset)
1. Wicca is not Celtic, although it borrows some Celtic holiday names, etc.
Really. And "Celtic Wicca" isn't. Although some folks practice a hybrid
which uses Wiccan forms and Celtic deities, imagery, etc.
2. Witta is utter bullshit. It's not even a possible word in any Celtic
language. The book was Wicca with vaguely Celtic overtones, once again. Grr.
The Celtic pagans I know call themselves Celtic pagans or Druids or Filidh
or some such.
Now, to answer your question, Misti- I think you've got the right of it;
you're an eclectic pagan, a "hearth witch", and a very good one.
*Technically*, a Wiccan is an initiate of one of the traditions descended from
Gerald Gardner's work. I'd include "gardneroid eclectic" in that mix,
although "stuffy traditionalists" <g> would not. So the Crafters are Wiccan,
to my way of thinking, since their basic training is pretty straightforward
Wiccan, even though they are not currently a recognized tradition. (Who
knows...<g>) Another local group, "The Wyrd Roots of the Sacred Forest" (I
think) are *not* Wiccan in their practice, although the influence is certainly
there. Nor do they call themselves Wiccan, they are their own tradition (I've
forgotten the name, <sigh>) with its own intitiatory process and ritual
structure.
If you want to be more specific, you could certainly say you're "pagan with
Wiccan leanings" or "Wiccan-influenced pagan", but why worry about it? You
know what you do and believe, and who's job is it to judge you, beyond that?
|
robh
|
|
response 3 of 25:
|
Feb 25 05:26 UTC 1999 |
And of course, there are plenty of people who consider themselves
pagan (Druids, Asatru, Lithuanian, etc.) who are very definitely
*not* Wiccan.
|
otaking
|
|
response 4 of 25:
|
Feb 25 13:27 UTC 1999 |
Pagan is an all-encompassing label that embraces many different paths. Its
a lot different than the denominations of Christianity. Christians believe
in God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, etc. while Pagans can have many different beliefs
and worship different pantheons. The fact that not all Pagans choose to follow
the Wiccan Rede and choose instead the Norse Rede of Honor (or something else
entirely) is a good example of this.
|
jazz
|
|
response 5 of 25:
|
Feb 25 16:18 UTC 1999 |
Kami, I'll take you word for it that "Witta" does not exist in the
Celtic languages; I'd like a chance to sit down with the group that I know
that professed to be of that faith, and ask them about it. It could well be
that I'm mispelling the word - my Gaelic (Irish or Scottish) is nonexistent.
From most of what I'd read of Gardner, he seemed fairly influenced by
Celtic traditions, thus, Celtic overtones. Is there a Gardnerian tradition
or work that isn't?
|
robh
|
|
response 6 of 25:
|
Feb 25 17:20 UTC 1999 |
Re Witta - Nope, you're not mispelling it, there's a book titled
"Witta" which claims to be based on Irish traditions, which is
probably where that group got its inspiration. It's one of the
cheesier books out there - in addition to the word "Witta" not
making any sense in Irish (I'm told that it's makes as much sense
in Irish as the word "xyqueph" does in English), it also mentions
that the ancient Irish made offerings of potatoes to the Fair Folk.
Pretty impressive, given that potatoes are a New World crop that
wasn't grown in Ireland until the 16th century! They must have
been great magicians, to make those potatoes fly across the
Atlantic and into their offering bowls. >8)
I'll let Kami do her "Wicca is not Celtic" spiel, she's so much
better at it than I am. >8)
|
brighn
|
|
response 7 of 25:
|
Feb 25 18:34 UTC 1999 |
I disagree that Wicca isn't Celtic, but then, the vehemence is coming from
people who've said that Wicca isn't Indo-European, which is silly. So I won't
pursue that further.
Here's my answer to the original question:
Most English speakers use "Pagan" to mean "neo-Pagan," and further to mean
"Pagan path of the 19th or 20th C. inspired by European non-JudeoChristian
spirituality." If you fall in that, you're Pagan. By rights, "pagan" also
*should" include Yoruban traditions (Voudon, Santeria), native American
traditions, and Asian spirituality (Buddhism, Shinto, etc.), but those
generally aren't included when Americans (at least) refer to "Paganism" (and
particularly to "neopaganism").
"Wicca" refers to a specific cluster of traditions, but has also come to refer
to any path that follows certain ritual and magickal formats, such as having
eight High Days (something other Pagans do, as well), four or five elements
(earth, air, fire, water, and sometimes spirit), emphasizing a male and a
female form of Deity, with the High Days representing their relationship
cycle, following some form of the Rede (an' it harm none, do what thou wilt),
having a High Priestess and (except some of the Dianics) a High Priest, and
so forth. Wicca is generally attributed to Gerald Gardner, who took influences
from QBL, the New Age of the time, allegedly reconstructed sources, and so
on.
That leaves "witch," somewhere in between the very broad "Pagan" and the very
narrow "Wiccan." I would say that a witch is anyone who uses Pagan techniques
to use magick.
|