SCSI hard disk not recognized by DOS

Jan 15 00:32 UTC 2006

How do I get DOS to recognize a scsi hard drive that linux can find and
partition (and format for linux)?  The controller card comes with a
utility that recognizes the drive (on ID 1, tho I set the jumper to ID 0)
and lets me set it to boot from 1, the computer does scsi boot, but right now
I only want to format it.  Linux fdisk finds it, DOS fdisk does not.  Linux
mke2fs formats a linux partition that I made on it with fdisk.  Three DOS
diagnostic programs don't find any non-IDE drives.  I have aspi8dos.sys loaded
high (and it workswith scsi zip and CD-ROM drives).  We found 5 scsi drives
and I got one working with linux, but also want to switch DOS to scsi on a
computer with bad IDE controller. IN theory I should not need a driver for
the hard disk.  aspidisk.sys is for removable storage devices.  This isa WD
2GB drive wtiha little green adaptor card to which you attach data and power
cable, and with which you set ID using a jumper.  
Linux seems to run faster in scsi.

response 2 of 59:

Jan 15 16:11 UTC 2006

I have been able to install linux to a similar drive (in a different computer
with the same SCSI controller card) and boot linux.  What I cannot do is
format the partitions on this disk with DOS format.  I can low-level format
it with the scsi card's utility.  I will look for a way to format the disk
for DOS with some linux utility.  Maybe format under dosemu?

response 4 of 59:

Jan 21 16:36 UTC 2006

What if you use linux to remove all partitions from the disk, and then
boot a dos floppy with fdisk and format on it?  Then make partitions
from dos.  Does that fail?  Dos fdisk can't handle partitions other than
dos, so if there are linux partitions on the drive dos fdisk will refuse
to handle them.  Also you'll want to use the dos 'fdisk /mbr' command to
make a boot sector.

response 6 of 59:

Jan 21 19:04 UTC 2006

If it was originally an Apple disk I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't work
in DOS. Apple and DOS use two different partitioning systems, and I'm not
surprised if Linux fdisk can handle both (especially if you're using a
"standard" kernel that came with a distribution, because it's likely to
have support for that partitioning scheme built in), but DOS probably
can't handle the Apple partitioning system.
 .
quit

response 8 of 59:

Jan 21 22:57 UTC 2006

If my hunch that Linux fdisk can handle both partitioning schemes is correct,
removing any existing partitions doesn't change the partitioning scheme. 
The last partition being Linux doesn't have any effect, any more than 
having two Linux partitions on an IDE disk with a DOS partition has any
effect. The only way to get at it, unless the partitioning scheme is built
into the hardware (I don't know if this is possible), is to *low-level*
format the disk. (If you've already done this, I have no further advice.)

 .
 help
 quit

response 10 of 59:

Jan 22 01:45 UTC 2006

Who needs (MS-)DOS anyways? Linux is better, and surely some other DOS would do
just as well for whatever you need a DOS for?

response 12 of 59:

Jan 22 15:51 UTC 2006

I like to use Wordperfect on a TTL monitor.  DOSemu does not support
console-mode Wordperfect (AltFn keys don't work as intended and if I try
xdosemu instead they crash X).  Linux does not even support TTL underline.
DOSemu does not support upper ascii characters.  BOCHs is said to.  DOSemu
Ctrl plus arrow keys does not work either.  I can also get online about 1
minute faster using DOS (turn on computer, boot, use kermit to dial grex, use
lynx faster at grex than directly via TCP/IP connection).   DOS boots faster
than linux so I use it to check mail.  I can't figure out how to print my
mails at grex from linux but it works perfectly with DOS, even if I telnet
to sdf I can print mails from there via grex.  I use linux for graphical
browsing (Opera or links2 graphical), image manipulation, streaming audio,
scanning.

response 14 of 59:

Jan 22 20:03 UTC 2006

I am making FAT16 partitions, according to syschk.  On this first computer,
syschk, hwinfo and nssi all found the drive as 0,0,0, but DOS did not assign
it any drive letters despite having three FAT16 partitions.  I had used the
internal scsi CD-ROM drive as terminator.  I finally found an internal scsi
cable with terminator to use in my other computer that has the same model
Adaptec scsi card with external CD-ROM drive (it refused to work when I took
it out of its case, though two others had cooperated and let me set them to
ID 4).  Eventually I got everything plugged in and running (I had to unplug
the external scsi cable or it would look for the external scsi hard drive,
which was not turned on, and refuse to boot).

This second computer, which is one Scott gave me (with bad onboard IDE primary
slave IDE and floppy controllers which I replaced with an I/O card), is
somewhat newer, a DFI, 533MHz (the cpu would only work reliably at up to
500MHz), like the first one (a 200MHz Soyo), can also be set to boot from SCSI
(and A: C: D: E: F: ZIP100 and CD-ROM).  It is a year or two newer.

Using the same drive with the same partitions (which linux found again),
hwinfo and nssi found the SCSI controller but NOT the drive itself.  The
Adaptec controller eventually found the drive (once I got the jumpers correct
and the scsi cable plugged into both card and drive, with terminator).  Syschk
found the drive and IT ASSIGNED IT DRIVE LETTERS!  The first IDE drive (four
DOS partitions) is C E F G and the scsi drive is D H I.  

So either the motherboard/BIOS or the actual scsi controller card is the
problem and I will put the 2GB drive in the second computer for DOS and for
playing with uclibc, and the 9G drive with three linux partitions (which I
am currently formatting with linux) for my little linux and for some later
version of Slackware (9.1?) and space to copy music CD's to and make MP3s.
Jim just fixed the DVD player that i gave us, which plays MP3s.  And he also
just acquired a 3MP digital camera which should help use up disk space.  

Scott gave us a Tyan dual 450MHz server motherboard with two onboard scsi
controllers but no case - does anyone have a huge ATX case they don't want?
We could put all the scsi drives in there and start our own bbs.  The previous
grex (SunOS) used a lot of 2GB scsi drives but they were much larger.  

Anyone want to try to explain the advantages of scsi?  From what I read, there
are none for DOS, or for linux except if you have more than one scsi drive
and are running several processes at once, using both drives (such as running
a BBS or other server).  

response 16 of 59:

Jan 23 19:16 UTC 2006

SCSI doesn't have a lot of advantages for desktop use, in my opinion.  
(There are probably people who will strenuously disagree with me about 
this.) 
 
SCSI is a big win when you need lots of drives in one machine.  Its 
architecture allows you to daisy-chain several drives (just how many 
depends on the type of SCSI) instead of just two in IDE.  Some versions 
also offer faster throughput than IDE.  Unlike IDE, the SCSI bus can 
also be extended outside the computer case for external drives, 
scanners, etc.  There are some rumors that SCSI drives are built to 
higher mechanical standards and are more reliable, but I'm not too sure 
about that.  They're certainly more expensive. 
 
Besides the expense, SCSI has some gotchas in setup -- you have to use 
good quality cables, make sure the cables aren't too long, and 
terminate properly at both ends, or you'll have mysterious problems 
that can be really hard to troubleshoot.  There's a lot of 
poorly-designed low-end SCSI hardware out there, making it even 
trickier.  You often need special drivers to properly use SCSI drives 
from DOS, as well, and if the card has no BIOS (cheap cards intended 
for scanners or tape drives are often this way) you may not be able to 
boot from it. 
 
It's starting to look like SCSI will be largely replaced by SATA for 
internal devices, and Firewire and USB 2.0 for external ones. 

response 18 of 59:

Jan 27 23:11 UTC 2006

If this is in one of the computers you used to test, I would make sure
that the scsi bus is put back together correctly.  Termination problems
might give such errors.  If not, then it becomes less clear. 
Terminators die sometimes.  Both ends of the scsi bus must be
terminated.  Most people have the adapter as one end of the bus.

response 20 of 59:

Jan 31 09:06 UTC 2006

CD-ROM drives usually had a jumper that would activate a built in
terminator.  Some had a pair of resistor packs you could put in.  They
look like a 1 inch by 1/8 inch blob of dried epoxy paint, usually red or
yellow, with a single row of about 8 or 10 pins.  They did it that way
as terminators sometimes burn out and need replacing.  If neither of
those are possible through lack of markings, or the resistor packs
missing from the socket, then move the drive elsewhere on the cable, or
get a terminator that connects into the drive connector on the cable.

response 22 of 59:

Feb 2 03:08 UTC 2006

Anyone know what it means if a computer boots some of the time, and maybe
boots more often if there is not a second video card in there (TTL), and if
it cold boots, then it will not warm reboot, starting yesterday?  Is it
possibly the power supply being overloaded and less load without the second
card?  I could unplug the CD-ROM drives as an experiment, or the 5.25" floppy
drive.  I think this is a 200 or maybe 250 watt supply and I have two hard
drives, two floppy drives, a CD burner and a CD-ROM reader, powered sound
card, TTL card was removed, PCI video card, ethernet card, internal modem
(which could be changed to external).  We have other power supplies to replace
it with if necessary.

response 24 of 59:

Feb 2 15:41 UTC 2006

The CD burner has a jumper on it that you put on to terminate it.  I don't
know what I can do to fix it so we just removed it and will test it one more
time in the other computer which is booting properly with a different scsi
CD-ROM drive.    The boot problem started after putting in the internal modem.