response 1 of 61:

Mar 25 06:42 UTC 1998

Renewable energy sources will never *substitute* for the level of
consumption we now have of non-renewable resources. Eventually, the
whole world will have to adapt to a less energy-intensive economy. We
can, of course, use non-renewable resources more wisely, with an eye
to the future, by using less, and developing and using more energy
efficient devices. But the American public seems hardly to care. The
latest manifestation of this is the production of inefficient trucks
for ordinary family transportation. 

response 3 of 61:

Mar 25 17:31 UTC 1998

Correct. And, because our ability and economy in extracting resources
has increased, we are able to 'afford' more - and since when will the
majority of people want less when they can get more? It has been
suggested that, looking toward the future, that an 'energy tax' be
implemented, to replace the earlier 'difficulty' in wasting resources
with a 'penalty' for wasting resources....but this is not very popular. 
The phenomenon is the same as any species breeding to consume the available
resources...and then comes scarcity, forcing what we cannot do intelligently.

response 5 of 61:

Mar 26 05:13 UTC 1998

I do strongly support an increase in gasoline taxes. Preferably a hefty 
one, while our economy can afford it. It will help motivate people to 
waste this precious resource less. It is not the only remedy, but it is 
one that will help a lot.

response 7 of 61:

Mar 26 07:13 UTC 1998

I have mixed feelings about an increase in the gasoline tax.  I know that gas
is cheaper here than almost anywhere else in the world.  I know that cars do
bad things to the environment.  I would like to see some more powerful
disincentives for using large amounts of gas, if nothing else to keep those
rediculous Lincoln Navigators off the road.  Probably when I was living and
working in Ann Arbor and didn't have to drive much, I would have been all for
it.

I feel a bit differently now.  I drive a lot, and if gas prices were going
to quadruple to get up to the level they're at in Europe, I would feel a bit
of a pinch (around $180 per month).  I suppose I could move closer to work,
but I'm not sure that would help.  The area around my office is set up such
that nothing is in walking distance (it's made up of subdivisions and strip
malls on a mile grid), so if I moved close to work I would no longer be able
to walk places as I do now when I'm in Ann Arbor.  The other alternative would
eb to quit my job, but I like my job and don't want to do that.

The reason high gas prices are able to work well in Europe is because they
have workable public transportation.  In Europe, when gas prices get too high,
people can stop driving as much but still get around.  In much of the US, the
most it could do is cause people to not get out as much.  If there were public
transportation that would take me from home to work in 45 minutes or less
(driving takes 30 minutes), I would gladly use it.  I haven't researched the
issue much, but as far as I can tell the only way to get from here to work
would be to take an Ann Arbor bus to the train station or walk there, take
a train to Detroit (runs maybe three times per day, or less), and then take
a Detroit bus back out to Livonia and walk a while.  It may be possible to
substitute a Greyhound bus for the train, but that doesn't make it an more
practical.

I do drive a fairly fuel efficient car.  My little Saturn sports car gets
around 30 mpg in my usual mix of city and freeway driving, and around 40 mpg
in pure freeway trips.  I figure having a fuel efficient car is about the best
I cna do given the circumstances.  I would love be able to drive less, but
making driving more expensive without providing alternatives will just make
me spend more money.  Perhaps it would be better to put a high tax on fuel
going into non-efficient vehicles to get people to buy smaller cars, but other
than that I'm not sure raising taxes will do any good.  After we build a good
public transit system, it will make sense to try to get people to stop
driving.

response 9 of 61:

Mar 26 07:30 UTC 1998

Rane, I did not mean to imply that a gasoline tax had anything to do 
with reality. I merely think it would be good public policy. 

Scg, an important reason that we lag the Europeans in mass transit - 
that we do not have decent mass transportation in high population areas  
- is that our gas is too cheap.

A lot of people will feel the pinch. It will drive up food prices, too.
it will have compensating benefits, and it will cause you to worry about 
how much gas (energy) you are spending to get to and from work. these 
are all good things (IMO).

response 11 of 61:

Mar 26 18:22 UTC 1998

I doubt that. People are adaptable (even if they don't like changing their
ways). But I do forsee some serious problems in just changing our ways.
If people became more economical, how would all the money be used? There
would have to be fewer goods to be more economical, so all the money now
circulating would chase fewer goods, and inflation would result. Now if
producing excessive goods just to soak up all the money is a "foundation"
of this country - which it sort of seems to be true - Klaus has a point. 
It would require a real plan to scale back the whole economy without
serious disruption of it - and when has a serious plan of even a fraction
of the magnitude ever come out of our political system? 

response 13 of 61:

Mar 26 21:42 UTC 1998

I know that cheap gas has been a big cause of the problems which now make
cheap gas necessary.  However, the way a lot of the US (the Detroit subburbs,
for example) have been layed out makes public transit extremely impractical
now.  If the idea is that raising the gas tax at this point is going to cause
people to tear everything down and start over, it's going to be a very long
painful process.

The gas tax is a public policy issue.  So is urban sprawl.  If politicians
have to change the gas tax to give politicians an incentive to change the
zoning laws or to give politicians an incentive to put in public transit,
there's something wrong.

I would be happy with an idea tha would involve getting the public transit
infrastructure in place first, and then giving people big incentives to use
it.

response 15 of 61:

Mar 27 05:59 UTC 1998

        The problem with financing alt. trans. with increased taxes is the
money never goes where it was intended.
        Sindi, the most efficient geothermal (ground loop heat pump) goes
straight down. It is fine on a small lot, the drawback is the cost of a well
digger. These systems can circulate by syphonage and the high efficiency
compressors can be powered by 1 or 2 P.V. panels.

response 17 of 61:

Mar 27 07:55 UTC 1998

I somehow doubt that a public which would vote out any politician who backed
public transit would suddenly start supporting that same politician when that
politician raised their gas taxes to justify the public transit.

response 19 of 61:

Mar 27 19:23 UTC 1998

If all road-building were paid for out of gasoline taxes rather than income
taxes, it would discourage so much driving, or at least the use of such
wasteful fuel burners.  This is similar to cities where you are charged for
water by the number of sinks, rather than the metered amount of water, or
apartment buildings were everyone pays the same for heat, and people open the
window if they are too warm, rather than turn down the thermostat.  There is
far less incentive to reduce consumption if you are not paying for all of what
you use directly.

response 21 of 61:

Mar 27 22:29 UTC 1998

What sort of heat do you have?  There may be some way to turn off a valve,
or close off a flap.  One place I lived I stuffed old cloths in the register.
If you can describe the thermostat, we may be able to describe an easy way
to at least turn it off, if not fix it.  (Try posting this question in the
DIY conference, item 2 I think it is, to get suggestions.)  I remember my
brother complaining about one landlord because his doorknobs were falling off.
Two minutes with a screwdriver by the tenants would have fixed this.

response 23 of 61:

Apr 3 23:31 UTC 1998

Oh, in case anyone did not notice, there is a Spring 98 agora item on cleaner
motor vehicles - fuel cells, methane, methanol, batteries, solar.....
(someone there proposed burning tires).