You are not logged in. Login Now
 0-24   25-49   50-53        
 
Author Message
krj
Stereo Hardware Toys Mark Unseen   Jan 11 20:59 UTC 2000

I need to buy one, and possibly two, portable CD players: for use in 
the car, the office, and for wearing around the house.  I had two, but 
one has been misplaced in the house and the other just had a hinge 
break on its lid.  
 
These are both Sony units, 3 and 4 years old, and two things i liked
about them were the illuminated keys (essential for night driving, I 
think) and the digital signal processing feature.  The DSP included 
a compression setting, which was ideal for compressing classical
music's dynamic range for the car environment.
 
The market has changed, and the features I want are generally no longer
available.  The DSP compression feature seems to have completely 
disappeared, and I can only find one Sony -- probably an older model
-- with illuminated keys.
 
I suppose I should be cheerful that the price has dropped about 50% 
since the last time I bought a portable CD player.
53 responses total.
scott
response 1 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 11 22:23 UTC 2000

My MiniDisc recorder has a little remote unit, which is a much more common
accessory in Japan than it is in the States.  My CD player (another portable
Sony) has a jack for a similar remote.  The remotes geneally have a little
backlit dispaly, and the controls (while not being lit themselves) are very
easy to operate by feel.
mcnally
response 2 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 11 22:55 UTC 2000

  Have you considered just getting a CD player for the car?  You listen 
  to enough music and drive enough that I think it'd be well worth it,
  especially since prices have gotten pretty reasonable..
anderyn
response 3 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 12 01:09 UTC 2000

My minidisc (also Sony) has a remote, too. I like it. But, I don't know,
most of the CD players I've seen haven't had illuminated keys, and I've 
never checked into the compression feature.
keesan
response 4 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 12 06:27 UTC 2000

Says Jim: Boy, some people really have problems.
krj
response 5 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 12 06:39 UTC 2000

I have thought about an in-dash CD player for the car.  
There are two problems.  The first is that I still dabble in 
cassettes.  The second is that the office parking ramp is the 
Car Stereo Thieves' Shopping Mart, so I don't want to put anything
fancier than a factory stereo in the car.
 
The built-in car stereo CD players don't seem to have the DSP compression
circuit for classical music either, at least not the last time I looked
at a Crutchfield catalog.

I could give Jim my other problem to chuckle over.  At home, our main stereo 
speakers are the old DCM Time Windows, the original model from around 
1980.  They look like cat scratching posts, and our new kitten Tristan
is probably going to finish destroying them.  DCM, originally an Ann 
Arbor company, was bought by another firm in the Southwest in the 
summer of 1999, so I'm skeptical that I'll have any luck in replacing 
these.

And the next other problem: it seems likely the capacitors are shot 
in the 1983-vintage receiver.  I'd talked with Accutronics about 
having the capacitors replaced, but while I was dawdling about it, 
Accutronics -- our favorite electronics repair shop -- went out of 
business.
orinoco
response 6 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 12 18:23 UTC 2000

What _is_ DSP compression?
lumen
response 7 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 12 18:30 UTC 2000

I was reading this and thinking it over a lot-- I used to subscribe to 
_Sound & Vision_, a magazine that emerged from _Stereo Review_ and 
_Audio Magazine_.

Dynamic range of speakers, reverb, and amplifier specifics were things 
I noted as varying factors among those that listen to different kinds 
of music in the home.  Classical and jazz aficionados generally tend to 
shy away from much bass extension in speakers since it's just out of 
range of acoustical instruments.  There was also a lot of debate over 
amplifiers-- there used to be a lot of vacuum tube purists, especially 
among those listeners.

Now, what I'm curious about is-- how does DSP work?  I wasn't aware 
that the dynamic range of classical music *had* to be compressed to 
work well in the acoustic setting of a car.  Really, most cars have 
superb acoustics compared to the home setting.  The stereotype of the 
car audiophile is of a young male basshead, but really, the arrangement 
is to be appreciated.  Since I don't know DSP, I'm going to guess on 
some things based on typical car acoustics.

I know most factory speakers are mid-range heavy, which I am guessing 
may actually work in *favor* for classical music.  Your implication 
that the dynamic range needs to be compressed rather confuses me, 
unless you're driving in a car that doesn't have high-end speakers, 
which I kinda doubt.  I remember a few Grexers who prefer to lower the 
dynamic high range for most music in the car, but I had always assumed 
that the car was otherwise an ideal acoustical environment.

Forgive me if I sound like a know-it-all-- I don't mean to.  I don't 
know the acoustical setup in your car, and I was curious, because there 
might be alternate ways around it.

My car is an '87 Chevy Nova with a factory radio deck.  That means no 
CD unless I install an FM device to transmit CD output over an FM 
channel, or install a CD player.  I remember void saying that since the 
high end of FM is limited, that effectively makes a natural cutoff as 
well on CD output.  I have treble and bass controls, which I generally 
use pretty liberally since mid-range *is* heavy.  Sometimes I boost the 
treble a little more and lower the bass for the classical stations.  I 
would have even finer control over this if I had a car equalizer, but 
it's not worth it.  I have great deck speakers, but the front ones are 
terrible and poorly acoustically placed (they're in a spot pointing 
down).

I'm guessing DSP is nice because it maximizes what you do have in your 
car for classical music.  I also understand from previous posts that 
theft has been a problem, so any other tweaking might be rather 
expensive.

They got rid of the backup lights?  That's too bad..
scott
response 8 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 12 20:18 UTC 2000

The music-to-road-noise ratio in a car is pretty bad.  I've thought about
getting a compressor too.
lumen
response 9 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 00:24 UTC 2000

if it's music-to-road noise, then I might understand.

I know some car audiophiles will put material on the inside hood of a 
car to reduce noise coming from the engine.  This might be a pad, or a 
spray on material that can also be put in other car areas to reduce 
other noises.  Often, they get electrical filters to reduce noise coming 
from more powerful alternators (helping to drive a more powerful 
system).  Radio enthusiasts will use them too for certain types of 
antennas and antenna boosters.

really, though, I want to know *what* exactly a DSP compressor is, and 
where it is needed in comparison to these other things.  There are so 
many factors in working with car acoustics, really-- the design and 
modeling of the car (because good luxury cars will close out external 
noises); placement of speakers (kick panel, deck, door, rear-view mirror 
clamp.. yes, the thing that meets the ceiling.., trunk or alternative 
area-- under seat, spare tire area); and specs of the receiver (tape 
deck, CD player, etc.)
scott
response 10 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 02:10 UTC 2000

Well, DSP stands for "Digital Signal Processing", which really doesn't mean
that much.  It's a neat way to do various types of signal processing without
the dedicated analog circuits.  Compression just makes the loud parts softer,
which means that you can turn the whole thing up and have the soft parts
louder.
orinoco
response 11 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 02:21 UTC 2000

Oh, that sort of compression.  Okay.  That makes sense.
rcurl
response 12 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 06:57 UTC 2000

While on the question of how things work, exactly what is magneto-optical
recording (as used on mini-discs)? That is, how does it work and what
aspects are magnetic and what optical?
krj
response 13 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 07:31 UTC 2000

   ((( Music #227  <--->  Consumer #106.  Thanks, kentn! )))
scott
response 14 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 18:30 UTC 2000

Magneto-optical uses both magnetism and light to do its recording.  A MiniDisc
reads more or less like a CD, using a laser to look for changes in a
reflective layer.  When recording, the laser is cranked up enough to loosen
things up so that a magnetic field can change the position of the reflective
layer.
rcurl
response 15 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 19:19 UTC 2000

Loosen what things up? Also, how does the laser "loosen things up"? By
heat and, if so, by melting something, or exceeding the critical
magnetization temperature, or what?

scott
response 16 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 22:39 UTC 2000

<shrug>  Search for "Minidisc" on the Web, and you'll find some nice sites.
That's what I did, but I don't remember absolutely everything.  :)
scott
response 17 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 13 22:50 UTC 2000

Phase-change technology (part A), is used in PD disks. This relies on
     using the laser's heat to change the phase-change layer of the disk back
     and forth between a crystalline and non-crystalline state, thereby
indicating
     a bit of data. (Although phase-change disks normally are rewritable, this
     approach might be called Light Intensity Modulated overwrite). Data is
     recorded magneto-optically, using both the heat of the laser plus an
     external magnetic field, so direct-overwrite requires modulating both
optic
     and magnetic systems. 

(taken from http://www.minidisc.org   )
rcurl
response 18 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 14 00:33 UTC 2000

Gets more and more interesting. I guess I need to find a technical source
so I can understand the details from the perspective of at least my
profession (chemical engineering). 

I was struck by the fact that the power supply for my daughter's minidisk
recorder is rated at 800 ma, while the one for her Discman is rated at
only 400 ma. It must be that high power laser that required more current
(but, 800 ma?).
n8nxf
response 19 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 14 12:44 UTC 2000

Are they the same voltage?
scott
response 20 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 14 13:58 UTC 2000

My own MD recorder will last several hours on playback, but less than one hour
recording.  Yup, that laser takes a fair amount of power.
rcurl
response 21 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 14 15:39 UTC 2000

Re #19: the MD wallwart is rated at 5 V 800 ma; the DM at 4.5 V 400 ma.
Given the 'regulation' in wallwarts, that difference in V is 'no difference'.
scott
response 22 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 14 16:23 UTC 2000

Oh, and my MD wallwart is 1000mA.
lumen
response 23 of 53: Mark Unseen   Jan 16 00:42 UTC 2000

resp:10  I was guessing something like that.
krj
response 24 of 53: Mark Unseen   Feb 14 07:37 UTC 2000

Sorry I never got back to the questions about compression.  Yes, I was 
talking about dynamic range compression, which I find essential for 
listening to classical music, particularly opera, in a car on the 
highway.  Classical music is recorded with a much wider dynamic 
range than is usual for rock or folk music, and I find that I have to 
"gain-ride" constantly to keep the quiet parts out of the noise floor
while not overloading the speakers and my ears on the loud parts.
 
And as I mentioned, such a compression feature was included in my two 
previous portable car CD players, purchased in 1995 and 1996, but now 
I do not think you can find any portable car CD player with this feature.
I looked pretty hard, in about five stores, plus web searches.  
 
Here's another feature which is gone.  The old CD players included 
a "resume" feature so that when you stopped the player, the machine would 
remember where you were on the disk, so you could resume listening
at the correct place when you got back in the car.
That feature is now gone from the new portable players.
 0-24   25-49   50-53        
Response Not Possible: You are Not Logged In
 

- Backtalk version 1.3.30 - Copyright 1996-2006, Jan Wolter and Steve Weiss