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steve
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The Alternate schools item
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Aug 31 22:37 UTC 1995 |
OK, here is the start of the discussion about "alternative
schools" that I started by announcing the fact that both of
my children are in such schools this year.
Part of me thought that it should have been an item to
start with, but then again I thought that my head was swelling
up and thinking thoughts about self-importance. Oh well.
So read this, and let us continue on... (these are the
relavant exerpts from item #2; about 345 lines of text)
#343 of 372: by STeve Andre' (steve) on Mon, Aug 28, 1995 (22:24):
(I don't usually enter things into this item. But when I do
I tend to run off at the mouth. You've been warned.)
I would like to announce that Both our kids, Damon (dea) and
Staci (sea) are going to "alternative" schools in Ann Arbor now.
For those of you who don't live near Ann Arbor, a little history.
This town has offered "alternative" education outlets in the public
schools for about 25 years now. The now defunct Earthworks school
started around 1970 or so, and Community High School in 1972. Back
in those early days it wasn't clear that such schools would survive.
I attended CHS and graduated in 1975, and it changed my life
completely, giving me access to computers at the UM while I was a
senior, and the rest they say, is history...
Back in 1974 enrollment at CHS was pretty low--there were
bands of students making the school tour circuit, basically
pleading with other students to join aboard. Over time, the
popularity of CHS grew, to the point that finally, more students
wanted to attend than could.
There is now an alternative elementary called Bach open
school, and a middle school called Middle Years Alternative,
and both are just as popular as CHS is. In fact, there have
been fights, law suits and other unpleasant things that have
occured between competing parents for slots in these schools.
This March 2nd, I entered into an all-night waiting-in-line
session at MYA in the attempt to get my son there. We were
told not to show up for the line-waiting until 3:00PM; I
obeyed that, and paid the price for it--others got there
before 3PM, and I found out that I was 8th in line. Still,
I stayed up all night with the other parents, and when 6:30AM
rolled around, we sleepily wandered over to the MYA main office
(just across from where we were sleeping) and got our applications
timestamped.
The school board here has an interesting policy with regard
to admissions. Rather than having a fair, completely random lottery
to determine who gets in, they take applications starting at a
date and time, on a first come first in line basis. They then
look at the number of openings at MYA (56 for the 6th grade),
subtract the number of slots that are given to the children of
Bach open school (the kiddies are automatically grandfathered
into the next higher school), and then arrive at a number of
free open slots. This year there were six. *six students
in all of Ann Arbor could get into MYA this year*. These
six slots were then divided into two sets of three. The
first three people in line got their kids into MYA. The
remaining of us (I will estimate 80, but is probably more)
were put in a lottery for the remaining three slots. Damon
was not in that group either, so he got on the waiting
list. They're very good about keeping these lists, forunately,
and a person at MYA by the name of Clair Johnson was never
unwilling to look up in the master records and tell me
where Damon was in the wait queue. When Damon advanced
from #5 to #4 we had a little party. Over time, Damon
crawled up to #2 on the queue, and then summer hit. There
was a period of two months where we had no idea if Damon
had advanced or not. Finally, on August 18th, I called
MYA yet again and found out that he'd advanced to the
front of the queue, and only one more child remained
to call in that they wouldn't be attending MYA, and
my son would be in. Evil thoughts crossed my mind
from time to time ("Here little child: take a look at
this thing called a cistern--*SPLASH*").
However, the magical call finally came, and last Thursday
we found out that Damon was in! HE WAS IN! After dancing
around in the Dungeon when I heard this (Glenda had called
me over the radio with this news), I remember that siblings
of kids in alternative schools (except for CHS) get priority
for open slots. Staci would be going into the 3rd grade.
....Was it possible, I wondered, after beating all the odds
for Damon that I might get Staci into Bach? Heart in mouth
I called Bach on Friday, and got ahold of an administrator
there who listened to me. I heard her rustle papers, looking
at the lists for third graders. I heard silence. I heard her
thinking. Finally she said, "I think I have a slot for
her". After my heart rate went back down, I asked if I
could slither over and sign the papers right then; she
said no, not really, as she should have left an hour
earlier, but come in at 9AM Monday and we could do it
then.
I didn't sleep well Sunday night. Glenda can probably
attest to that. When I finally got there and found the
person I'd talked to on Friday, she said that my son
would have to be on a waiting list, as there wasn't
a free slot for him. Son? Staci didn't look like a
son. I told her I thought Staci was female. Her eyes
lit up and she said "Oh, well in that case, I have a
space for her". I guess they practice sex balancing
at Bach. But, whatever the details of their admission
algorithms are, Staci got in! Because she doesn't
posses certain things they let her in!
I walked out of the school this morning in something
of a daze. In the space of less than 96 hours we went
from not knowing if Damon could get into MYA, to getting
*both* in.
*I AM ONE HAPPY PARENT*
I am still one PISSED OFF parent that the Ann Arbor School
board has consistently come up with reasons to figure out
ways to deny the creation of schools that are in demand.
Now that I've navigated this crazy shit, and come out of it
winning, I think I want to get involved and change this.
I went through the Ann Arbor school system and suffered.
More choices are needed here.
#345 of 372: by Steve Gibbard (scg) on Mon, Aug 28, 1995 (22:41):
Congrats to Damon and Staci! I agree with STeve; Ann Arbor desperately needs
more alternative schools. Ann Arbor also really needs to do something about
the situation where people are willing to camp out for days to avoid Ann
Arbor's "traditional" schools. I also think it's rediculous to say that out
of the number of spaces available at MYA, only six were available to people
who hadn't gone to Bach, and I'm glad to say that Community doesn't have a
policy like that. Community has a bad waiting list problem, but due in large
part to student and teacher protests my Freshman year when a bunch of MYA
people were lobbying for priority, at least Community puts everybody through
the same hell to get in, regardless of what school they went to before.
This should probably go in its own item in aaypsi.
#346 of 372: by Mary Remmers (chelsea) on Mon, Aug 28, 1995 (22:49):
STeve slipped in with his announcement. Congratulations!
As a parent of a now graduated CHS student I understand your
elation. This is wonderful news.
#347 of 372: by HAL 9000 ran amok on Windoze 95 (omni) on Tue, Aug 29, 1995
(00:11):
Congrats, Steve.
.\
#348 of 372: by Mark A. Conger (aruba) on Tue, Aug 29, 1995 (02:25):
Congratulations, STeve and Glenda and Damon and Staci!
#350 of 372: by igor von heiniken (iggy) on Tue, Aug 29, 1995 (10:00):
if i had a kid, i'd want the child to go to an alternative school.
way to go STeve!
<see, i was so happy for you that i actually used the shift-key>
#352 of 372: by Sarah O'Connor (birdlady) on Tue, Aug 29, 1995 (11:02):
Rane...did you stop and see anybody on your way through Gaylord? (Where the
45th parallel is).
Steve...congratulations!!!! I'm really happy for you and your kids. What
exactly *is* an alternative school, though? I mean, how is their program
different from other schools?
Chelsea...sorry about the textbook remark. I was just *extremely happy* that
I didn't have to sell an arm this year. ;)
#353 of 372: by Andrew J. Lanagan (drew) on Tue, Aug 29, 1995 (11:58):
Congrats to STeve and glenda. I can't help but ask, though, how much do the
kids themselves care about whether they got in? Are they aware of the
difference?
#354 of 372: by TS Taylor (tsty) on Tue, Aug 29, 1995 (12:20):
C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !!!!
Staci,
Damon,
Glenda,
STeve. <phew!>
#357 of 372: by STeve Andre' (steve) on Tue, Aug 29, 1995 (17:44):
Thanks all. No, Staci doesn't really appreciate what she is in for,
because she's too little to understand. Damon does, however, since he
had a really bad year at Dicken, where his teacher made fun of him a
couple of times, when he said things that she either didn't understand
(talking about quarks) or wouldn't believe (a recounting of the former
slave Charlie, who in an interview talked about his being fed pancakes
by white peole was was told that they grew on trees in America). So
he appreciates the difference between MYA and what he's already been
through.
"Alternative" schoolc in Ann Arbor are less focused on things
like grade seperation between studetns, have generally less uptight
teachers, and are a generally more freindly atmosphere in which to
do things. As an example at Bach (the elementary) there are impromptu
walks around the neighborhood during the fall.
Children growing up in such schools typically do less well in
traditional academic testings at first, but then typically jump
far ahead of their peers as they get older (5th grade and on).
If you're interested in reading something that goes against the
grain of what we consider schools, the book "Summerhill" about the
original school of that name in England is a fun place to start.
#359 of 372: by M. T. Anslin (mta) on Wed, Aug 30, 1995 (01:51):
Drew, you asked
Congrats to STeve and glenda. I can't help but ask, though, how much
do the
kids themselves care about whether they got in? Are they aware of the
difference?
In my opinion, most kids are too young/inexperienced to really understand the
differences between schools until almost high school. Given a chance, the
average middle grader will prefer the school that requires less 'work'.
We, as adults have to make informed decisions on their behalf. That's what
parents are for, after all.
#360 of 372: by . (n8nxf) on Wed, Aug 30, 1995 (08:00):
There has always been a high demand for "alternative" schools in Ann Arbor.
The schools system, however, has been unable to meet the demand for years.
Then the residents of the city vote down schools of choice. Go figure.
#362 of 372: by Valerie Mates (popcorn) on Wed, Aug 30, 1995 (09:07):
Congrats to all the open-school Andres!
#363 of 372: by Autolycus (rogue) on Wed, Aug 30, 1995 (10:12):
#357: I would be careful of the cause-and-effect you are suggesting. It is
entirely possible that children in "alternative" schools do better
academically because their parents are involved with the education
of their children. (I'm not trying to piss on your parade or
anything because you seem like an involved parent and you win either
way -- I am just suggesting that parental involvement could be more
important than the perceived or real difference in quality because
"alternative" schools and traditional schools.)
By the way, I really don't like the "alternative" label. I didn't like
it when it was used to refer to music and I don't like it when it is
used to refer to schools.
#364 of 372: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Wed, Aug 30, 1995 (12:54):
I tend to support rogue on this. Our daughter is in the regular AA school
system, and appears to be thriving. I see no reason at all for an
"alternative" school for her - in fact, the term is suspiciously like a
euphemism for something not particularly comprehensive. I see no
particular educational advantages in it, since one can find "enrichment"
in real life just as well. I am not, of course, saying "alternative"
schools are poorer, either: just that it really doesn't matter, but if one
makes you happier than another, why not?
#365 of 372: by Mary Remmers (chelsea) on Wed, Aug 30, 1995 (15:37):
Not every child thrives in the one-size-fits-all style of school. A lot of
kids do, thankfully, but there are those who need a different approach,
whether that be simply more accepting of differences, something smaller in
scale, something less focused and instead multi-disciplinary. Not all
kids learn best the same way.
But the problem this city has faced is that if parents don't think their
kids need (or would be able to get into) an alternative school then they
pronounce such projects as unnecessary and a waste of money and vote for
School Board members pandering to such fears and jealousies. Even
when it is clearly shown how opening an alternative school would not
mean a decreased services for existing programs and may, in fact, even
improve traditional programs.
It's voter selfishness and ignorance. And politics.
#366 of 372: by Christopher L. Goosman (goose) on Wed, Aug 30, 1995 (22:44):
Why don't we try fixing what's "wrong" with the other schools, instead
of building more schools, alternative or otherwise.
I'm also with rogue and rcurl(?) on this. FWIW, I come from a small
town with no alternative schools.
#368 of 372: by Steve Gibbard (scg) on Thu, Aug 31, 1995 (01:31):
While I'm sure that "alternative" schools aren't for everybody, I'm also very
confinced that Community High was a better place for me than Pioneer would
have been. I've never done very well in the "do it because I said so" type
of environment that Pioneer generally is, and there were also lots of
educational programs that helped me a lot that I simply would not have been
able to do in a more "traditional" environment. The two "classes" I think
I learned the most in in high school were covering the school board for
Community's school newspaper and teaching a class at Webber Middle School in
Detroit. I could have gone to all the school board meetings and written
about them going to Pioneer, but I wouldn't have gotten credit for it. I
certainly couldn't have decided to spend every Friday afternoon for a year
and a half in Detroit going to Pioneer.
#369 of 372: by Steve Weiss (srw) on Thu, Aug 31, 1995 (01:37):
I agree with rogue and rcurl and goose. I am happy that the Andres
got into the school they chose to prefer, but I think there are other things
going on that don't meet the eye when measuring performance of kids
who go through alternative versus regular schools.
Yes, I agree that they teach things differently, and that this is better
for some kids (and worse for others), but I think there is a difference in
the perceived quality of the teaching, and that is the main reason that the
alternatives are so popular in Ann Arbor. If the teachers at the alternative
schools actually are better than those in the regular schools, there is a
lack of fairness that is driving this.
The regular schools are getting a raw deal if this is so.
#370 of 372: by Katie Geddes (katie) on Thu, Aug 31, 1995 (08:23):
This is a great discussion. How about making its own item?
#371 of 372: by Colleen Marie Fury (giry) on Thu, Aug 31, 1995 (10:08):
"here here"
#372 of 372: by Autolycus (rogue) on Thu, Aug 31, 1995 (14:11):
I simply don't buy the "alternative" is better argument. In high school, the
"cool crowd" thought "alternative music" is better. I asked them why and
the answer essentially was, "Because less people listen to it and because
we listen to it we're cool." I'm getting a feeling that the "alternative
school" is better argument runs along the same lines.
BTW, I went to what could be called an "alternative school" in Toronto
with special arts, music, academic and other programs. I was in the
academic program and I thought it was a great program. However, it is
definitely not for everyone and not everyone would have come out better.
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| 120 responses total. |
steve
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response 1 of 120:
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Aug 31 23:31 UTC 1995 |
I don't see the resistence towards the concept of "alternative
schools" (I don't like that phrase either).
Everyone is different. People like differences. If that wern't
the case, then people would flock to the same restauraunts for
example. Yet we have hundreds of thousands of different places
to eat in the world.
And so it is with education. The very concept of "one school
model for all" means that some are going to be left out, those
who aren't unteachable, but rather those that need things brought
out to them in a different way.
I am a perfect example of this. I am usually very visual,
and if given enough examples on something will usually grasp
onto whatever I need to learn about.
Let me tell you about something that still haunts me.
Math.
Because the Ann Arbor school system was very rigid in it's
teashing methods of math in the 60's (I did time from 1963
to 1975), the only way to differienciate students was the
system called "tracking". There were usually three tracks
of math in elementary and junior high school. The biggest
track was the middle of course, where probably 60% of the
students went. The upper track was smaller at around 30%,
which left the lower track at about 10%.
I was consistently in the lower track, but did fantastically
well, often going an entire semester with making a single
error on anything I did. I mean that litterally. Because
there were usually fewer students in this class, I got the
extra attention I needed, and once I had a single session
with the teacher over a concept, I got it. It always amazed
the teachers--Steve, who doesn't do well, so he's here in
this class, doens't need help, they'd say.
And so it went each year. A couple of times I'd get
bumped up to the normal track, but because I couldn't
get the things like the others, I'd do horribly, and
would slide down again. This happened several times.
Things came to something of a head when the low-track
teacher discovered that I was attempting to read and
figure out something called field theory, which I was
interested in, at it relates to how electro-magnetic
forces leaves antennas. This was in the 5th grade. I'd
discovered radios (just listening to shortwave at that
point), and learned some someone at a radio store about
this thing called field theory. Now, it was completely
beyond me, but in talking with some friends parents, I
got a little of the ideas presented, and tried doing a
little more on my own. When the low-track teacher saw
what I was doing, she didn't comprehend what I was doing,
nor what I was trying to read. She admitted this. *But
she also said that I shouldn't be doing it*.
It violated the order of things, my going off on my
own, on what would be a nearly useless chase for
something, but which nevertheless gave me ideas about
things. And I had thought even then that that was part
of the idea about what education was.
I eventually did learn the math that most people
know, and more, but it wasn't the Ann Arbor School
system that taught me. It was in fact despite of
them that I know any math at all. It was only because
I realized that math was the way to express electrical
concepts that I delved into it at all. My education
in this respect is spotty as well, having no one but
myself as a teacher.
There were other subjects in which the Ann Arbor
school system blitzkrieged me, like reading. I did
not read my first real book until I was at the end
of the 4th grade, a fantasy book about a shy dinosaur.
But by the middle of the 5th grade, I was reading
_Murder in the Cathedral_ by TS Elliot. My 5th
grade teacher expressed displeasure with my reading
such a book. She thought it was beyond me. In
retrospect I believe it was beyond her.
So I can honestly say that the Ann Arbor school
system taught me nothing *and I mean nothing* about
academics. They didn't teach me to read; comic
books and my mother did. They didn't teach me
math, not really (I'd taken to reading the upper
track math book of a friend of mine who lived two
doors up from me, and who would explain things to
me). I didn't learn anything about English, because
for the first four grades I couldn't read, and
attempting to teach someone who can't read is much
akin to trying to teach a butterfly calculus.
Later on, in the 8th grade, we had one semester of
how to deal with the structure of English. The
author of the book was the teacher, a very old
man even then, who didn't explain anything. I
did fairly well there solely because once I saw
an example of something I could synthesize more
myself, and he loved the writings I did. But
never, not for one minute did I understand *how*
to parse a sentence. I remember the terms Subject
and Kernel of a sentence, but if you threatened to
blow Staci's brains out if I didn't show you how
they connected, I would fail. I think I can write in
at least a reasonable fashion, but I cannot tell
you anything about how language is structured.
What I did learn in the Ann Arbor school systems
wern't academic: I loved the theater; I always did
but that was the first time I could actually be
a part of the technical side, or performing. The
teacher, a "Ms. Stolarefsky" was *feared* by many
as a real hard-ass, but I loved her--she didn't
suffer fools gladly, but was willing to explain
anything in the theatrical world to anyone who
was willing to listen. The metal shop classes
I took had a profound impact on me, as I had
grown up without my father. Those classes were
the first exposure to "man" things that I'd
ever had. Learning about the internal combustion
engine was really something. Lastly, in the 8th
grade I had a wonder English teacher, who taught
english in a way that I'd never seen before. We
talked and discussed the books we read; it was
wonderful. It didn't teach me anything new,
except talking to an actual adult which almost
no other teacher did up to that point.
Looking back on my years in this school system
I can recall only eight teachers that were worth
their salaries. I suffered in school. I really
did. I saw people who loved the system, and a few
others like me who jsut did not fit in. I am
quite sure that the school system at it currently
is works wonderfully well with the majority of
children, but not all of them!
So why adopt an educational system that demands
one style of teaching, which implies one form of
learning? It's pointless, unless you want to take
the easy way out and standardize everything. But
however well you do with the mainstream, the edges
are still rough.
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flem
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response 2 of 120:
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Aug 31 23:48 UTC 1995 |
I, too, had problems with the Ann Arbor schools' idea of what is
"normal" and "right" for an education. I kept trying to take classes
that I hadn't taken the "prerequisites" for. The fact that these
prerequisites were half review of the previous course, and half watered-
down new stuff, didn't seem to occur to them. Fortunately for me, I
was strong-willed enough to get into the classes I wanted, and didn't
waste *too* much of my high school career, although I do wish I had it to
do again.
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drew
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response 3 of 120:
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Sep 1 02:38 UTC 1995 |
Congrats again to STeve on having a middle school aged kid who *does*
appreciate what he's in for. This in itself is a good sign, whether he had
gotten into MYA or not.
My school experiences were (a) a Catholic parochial school, and (b) the public
schools of Grosse Ile. (a) was basically your ordinary one-mold-fits-all
school with excessive God and "discipline" thrown in. The students probably
were marginally better educated than average, though this was hardly worth
the BS. (b) was a standard public school, but I lucked out in having a dozen
or so quality teachers.
My observation is that, to a very large extent, the teachers *are* the school.
They make all the difference. I have personally witnessed this difference,
with the *same* students, studying the *same* subject, with different
teachers. The piss-poor ones, those that no one could ever understand, had
classes that were uncontrolled, full of distraction, and everyone thinking
it was a joke. (Which may not have been far from the truth.) Install a
different teacher, a good one, and the class was orderly and quiet and
everyone got it (or at least I did). And "discipline" had nothing to do with
it, either. It had to do with how well the teacher could hold the attention
of the class.
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steve
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response 4 of 120:
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Sep 1 04:27 UTC 1995 |
Thanks Drew. You're right too, about the teachers making the
school.
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rcurl
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response 5 of 120:
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Sep 1 05:07 UTC 1995 |
I suppose I went to an "alternative" school myself. There are two
public high schools in New York that (at that time) required an
entrance examination, and I got into Brooklyn Technical High (my
brother made it into the other one, Stuyvesant). I don't recall
particular good or bad experiences in elementary school, but we had
very supportive parents - I was doing organic synthesis at home, and
my brother was doing microtome slide preps, before we got into high
school (of course, they had to put up with formaldehyde, and a few
little *pops*, now and then). Brooklyn Tech was where I really
started to love learning. It was probably as much the collection of
all the motivated students as much as the teachers and teaching
environment (our physics teacher had some personal problems and
disappeared...another student and I took over and continued the class
until a substitute was found). By the way, my elementary school
teachers (as I recall) did tell me that I'd never get into Brooklyn
Tech, so why bother applying....(and my parents wanted me to go to
Stuyvesant too), so I had to take it upon myself to overcome some
hurdles.
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scg
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response 6 of 120:
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Sep 1 05:27 UTC 1995 |
I'm a little mystified by the argument that "alternative" schools take away
from the other schools. While I agree that there are problems at the
mainstream schools, and that these problems need to be fixed, this can be done
while still allowing the alternative schools to flourish. The different types
of schools can learn a lot from eachother, and complement eachother nicely,
if they're willing to. However, when we have the Pioneer PTSO President
showing up at the school board complaining about anti-Pioneer disccrimination
at the suggestion that Community be allowed to have anywhere near the level
of per student funding that Pioneer and Huron get, we have a problem.
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ajax
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response 7 of 120:
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Sep 1 06:14 UTC 1995 |
I seem to recall a further admissions subrule not covered in
STeve's description, whereby siblings of students already enrolled
in alternative schools are given precedence over other children.
Is that accurate?
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steve
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response 8 of 120:
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Sep 1 13:07 UTC 1995 |
Yes, but it isn't quite clear to me how it works.
I was under the imperssion that once Damon was in at MYA, Staci
would have preference for being able to get on the waiting list at
Bach. Talking to the principal at Bach, I found out that they
interpreted this as "once a child had been in an alternative school
for a year, *then* siblings can get on the preferencial waiting list".
So I'm not sure what the rule really is.
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popcorn
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response 9 of 120:
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Sep 1 13:58 UTC 1995 |
This response has been erased.
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flem
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response 10 of 120:
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Sep 1 15:55 UTC 1995 |
I've personally always thought that the first step to a decent public
education system was to make teaching a more appealing prospect to talented
people. The low salaries and terrible time most teacher seem to have
drives talented people away from teaching positions where they would do
a lot of good.
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rcurl
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response 11 of 120:
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Sep 1 17:11 UTC 1995 |
I was inspired, while going to Brooklyn Tech, to consider becoming a
teacher there - it seemed so exciting and fullfilling. However I went
to a university and became an engineer, and by then the choice of doing
something *as an engineer*, with a graduate engineering degree, versus
teaching high school, was not a choice at all. However, here I am now
in teaching anyway, though at the university level, where one can also
practice the engineering profession.
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n8nxf
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response 12 of 120:
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Sep 1 18:06 UTC 1995 |
Gee, STeve. I can echo almost everything you said... Having been through
the A^2 school system from stem to stern and not fitting the mold, we've
had similar experiances. My concern now is that of a parent. My daughter
will do fine. She fits the mold and will do well in the A^2 system. My
real concern lies with my son. He marches to his own beat and learns
from methods not embrased by the A^2 school system. In K-garten they
pushed him so hard in making perfect letters that by the end of the year
we could no longer get him to write. He said it was too hard and that he
couldn't do it. Prior to that he was doing inventive spelling and did a
lot of writing. Then, this summer, my wife (A teacher herself.) taught him
to read. He is very prowd of his reading ability and reads to us as well as
his little sister. We are concerned that he not learn to hate reading by
the end of first grade.
As far as the "alternative"school issue, yes, it takes a very good teacher
to teach in an open environment like that. By good I mean flexable and in
tune with each childs needs. Not good in the sense of having a 4.0 GPA
upon graduating from teacher school. A^2 schools seem to have more of the
latter and few of the former. There is no way they can open more open
schools since they don't have the resources to staff them. Another sword
in their side is the tenured teachers they now employ. Getting rid of
someone with tenure is a *big* headach and expense.
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headdoc
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response 13 of 120:
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Sep 1 19:33 UTC 1995 |
Valerie, THIS is an example of a "good" and interesting item because of the
dialogue that it generated.
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scg
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response 14 of 120:
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Sep 1 23:44 UTC 1995 |
re 7 and 8:
I'm not sure how it works at bach and MYA, but Community does not have
sibling priority. When the idea was proposed a few years ago a lot of the
parents really wanted it, but the teachers and students shot it down on the
basis that it isn't fair to those who don' thave siblings at Community.
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glenda
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response 15 of 120:
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Sep 2 01:23 UTC 1995 |
As and example of the way the schools differ: for the last 3 years when
we asked Staci how things went in school every day the usual reply was
"good", "OK", and "not so good". This year when STeve picks her up from
school and asks how her day was the response has been an enthusiastic
"wonderful, like usual". When they picked me up from work on Wednesday,
she greeted me with "guess what we did today, Mom! We went on a tour
of the whole school, and we got to go 'everywhere', all by ourselves, without
a supervisor!!" It seems that her teacher felt that the new students should
tour the school to see where everything was, so he placed each of the new
students in a group with a student who had attended Bach since kindergarten
and a student that had attended last year and sent them off for a tour. They
got to visit all the different classrooms (and were welcomed by the students
and teacher in each), the office, lunchroom, janitor's closet, teachers'
lounge, etc. I have rarely heard her so happy, excited and wonderous all
at the same time. The biggest thing that she kept repeating was "and we
got to go without a supervisor". I know of no mainstream public school
which would allow this.
Damon hasn't been quite as enthusiastic as Staci, but seems to be happy
and eager to go to school every morning. I think that he is playing it
cool and lying low until he is sure that everything is going to be fine.
He was so unhappy last year and it was very difficult to get him up and
off to school during the last half of the year, that it is good to see
him eager to get going again. He is excited about a couple of his
courses already and it promises to get better as he feels more comfortable.
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steve
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response 16 of 120:
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Sep 2 03:40 UTC 1995 |
Interesting (and depressing) that we've had similar experiences
Klaus. How many techers were really good in your career here? I can
count eight.
Something that I think I've seen in the schools here in the
last few years: the teachers themselves are selecting for the
schools they want. I believe that the more flexible and tolerant
techers are migrating towards the three alternative schools. Not
completely to be sure, but from talking to several teachers last
year (at Dicken) about MYA, I got the distinct feeling that they
were either supportive of the idea of a place like MYA, or pretty
much against it. I know that you have to volunteer to get into
one of the alternative places, so no one in forced to go.
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beeswing
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response 17 of 120:
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Sep 2 04:45 UTC 1995 |
Where I'm from, the only alternative to public school is private school. I
went to public schools until 10th grade, when I voluntarily transferred to
a private one. Anyway, elementary school was a drag. I also did not fit into
the grades to match. And as I got older, I learned that if you didn't make
great grades, you didn't count for squat. You didn't get the honors,
privliges, or praise and were basically ignored. My poor math grades (it
wasn't until I was 20 and took tests on my own accord that I found out I was
LD) kept me out of honors programs. My self esteem dropped and I wasn't so
sure anymore that I wasn't stupid. It's the most frustrating thing in the
world to work hard and not ever see the results gradewise. Despite my test
scores in math never reflected my real IQ, no teacher ever bothered to suggest
testing. Half the time they were too busy trying to get the class to shut up.
In 9th grade I went to the teacher because I couldn't understand a math
problem... she said she was too busy and told me to sit down. In 1st grade
I got a lower grade for not placing two fingers between each word I'd written.
What amazes me still is how many parents will take a teacher's opinion at face
value and think that the teacher must know what's best. I know of a girl who
was held back in 4th grade not for her grades but because she was not
"socially ready" for 5th grade! Is anyone socially ready for 5th grade?!
This girl is an Occupational Therapist now and is engaged. Yeah, I'm sure
that's all due to repeating 4th grade... and the teasing from her peers for
being held back sure helped her social skills too. I am so afraid, when I have
kids, to put them through school. I definitely plan to get involved with their
schooling. I don't advocate home schooling but I can see why some parents feel
there is no other option.
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chelsea
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response 18 of 120:
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Sep 2 05:52 UTC 1995 |
Until Ann Arbor offers more alternative schools I see it as unfair to
allow siblings to bypass any lottery. Why? Single kids are far less
likely to gain a spot in the school, the decision to send a sibling has
usually less to do with the individual learning needs of the child and
more to do with the parents simply wanting all their kids to go have the
same "experience", and there are simply too many who desperately want to
attend these schools to let a smaller group have greater access.
To open another alternative high school in Ann Arbor would not have meant
hiring any additional staff. There are so many students per staff in the
system, and what building they teach at wouldn't change that ratio. A few
years ago when the proposed new alternative high school was actually going
to cost less per student than either of the mega-schools the critics asked
how this could be... The answer was that the alternative students were
willing to give up things like swimming pools and football teams and
*libraries* in order to have their alternative programs, and that it would
indeed be cost effective. The mega-schools wouldn't suffer any hardships
and in fact it would ease overcrowding their facilities.
The alternative school critics heard these words. They even heard the
administrative bean counters reiterate that the numbers were indeed true,
and then they proceeded to totally ignore the comments and continue to
preach to their PTO groups that the system couldn't afford to spend money
on such projects and that if they did their schools would have their
budgets slashed and things like football might be in jeopardy, so vote for
the no-alternative School Board slate. And they did, right on cue.
Based on unfounded fears and patent lies.
Those who were following the issue couldn't believe the distortions being
used to squash the project. So now there are two high schools, with 2000
students each, and lots of problems with overcrowding and students who are
lost in a system unable to met their needs. But man, do they have a great
football team.
I'm not a religious person but this particular episode has mean
leaning toward vouchers for private schools. If School Boards
won't be responsible and put the needs of students before politics
then maybe letting parents have a real choice about going to
public schools will give them a sense of accountablity.
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katie
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response 19 of 120:
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Sep 2 12:26 UTC 1995 |
I went thrugh the Ann Arbor school system. Elementary school was
absolutely fantastic. Jr High was a drag. I went to Pioneer for some
classes when I was in Jr High, as the Jr High had no advanced courses.
I had to schlep myself from Tappan to Pioneer every day, and the time
it took made me give up music classes, which I liked. There was also
a "teacher shortage" (whatever the heck that means) during Jr High, so
we had shop teachers teaching English and the like. I went to Community
for one semester and hated it.
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scott
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response 20 of 120:
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Sep 2 13:21 UTC 1995 |
I went thru the whole regular A2 thing also. The down side was:
1. A weird old lady teacher in 3rd grade that made my parents switch schools
for the rest of elementary (xferred to Newport, which was much better - my
parents had to drive me, everyday, which I appreciate a great deal more now
when I look back at it).
2. Junior high was the worst pit in hell, but it is for any student. I
went to Forsythe, where MYA is, so MYa wouldn't have been any better as far
as climate goes.
The rest was pretty good - Pioneer had a huge theater to work in, especialy
since they rented it out for shows all the time and had a paid student crew
to run it - *very* good experience. Community probably had much better
computers, even then, but I'm glad I never got too close to computers back
then - I ended up heavily into music instead, and still ended up a
professional computer geek. :)
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n8nxf
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response 21 of 120:
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Sep 2 23:56 UTC 1995 |
STeve, there was one teacher in elementary school who had me figured out
the first week I was in class. Dean Smith. A fantastic teacher for me.
No one else stands out. I hated Jr. High and liked Huron. Huron was
only one year old when I started 10th grade .
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gracel
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response 22 of 120:
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Sep 3 02:05 UTC 1995 |
This has been linked from agora (summer 1995) 129 to the smalls
conference, item 69.
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scg
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response 23 of 120:
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Sep 3 02:11 UTC 1995 |
I went to elementary school all over the place, and had a pretty wide
variety of experiences. I went to Kindergarten at Nixon Elementary School
in Palo Alto, CA (not named after the former President). I don't remember
too much about it, but I remember that I generally liked going to school, and
liked both my teachers (the class had two teachers), learned a fair amount,
got along well with the other kids, and generally had a good time. I vaguely
remember days when the teacher would take us for walks around the neighborhood
and things like that. It was quite an enjoyable experience. Then I came back
to Ann Arbor for first grade. I don't really remember first grade very much,
except that we spent a lot of time on learning how to form our letters in
exactually the right way (anybody who's seen my handwriting can tell that that
obviously didn't help much). I think we also spent a lot of time on various
math worksheets that involved "+1 -2 spirals" and things like that, where we
would have a spiral with lots of dots on it, and we had to to fill in numbers.
Depending on the color of the line, we either needed to fill in a number that
was one more than the previous number, or one that was two less than the
previous number. There were lots of variations on it. I had a lot of trouble
with it; I'm not sure whether I just didn't understand how to do it, or more
likely, I think it bored me so much that I couldn't concentrate on it. Since
I don't have any horrible memories of first grade, I'll assume it was pretty
much ok.
When I got to second grade, my problems really started. I wasn't
finishing my work, and rather than trying to figure out why I was having
trouble with it, my teacher decided that the best thing to do was just send
it home with me. I'm not sure, but I think she must have either thought it
would be good training for the time a few years down the road when everybody
would have to do homework, or as an incentive for me to get it done at school,
so that I wouldn't have to take it home. I think it was the latter. Whatever
the intended result was, it backfired. I had as much trouble finishing this
stuff at home as I did at school, and as the pile of it grew and grew, I think
I pretty much started feeling overwhelmed by this busywork. It was the first
time I can remember actually dreading going to school, but that feeling of
dread towards school was something that would stay with me through middle
school.
Third grade was much better. I was in a private school in Oxford,
England, I had a teacher, Miss Kinnear, who seemed to really know how to get
through to me. I actually started enjoying reading, writing, and math, that
year; all three of those were things I really dreaded before. By the end of
the year, I was doing better than everybody else in the class on our math
tests, and the math we were being taught in third grade included entry level
Algebra. I was actually looking forward to going to school in the mornings
that year, and had a really fun time desipite a bit of anti-Americanism among
some of the other students.
For fourth grade it was back to Burns Park, and back to the same old
worksheets that had given me so much trouble before. Again I started having
trouble with everything, and dreading going to school. I ti didn't help that
if I didn't have everything done, my teacher had a tendency to start yelling
at me about it, in front of the rest of the class. It was at the end of that
year, when my teacher was threatening to make me repeat fourth grade, that
my parents finally figured out that I was dyslexic, and I started getting
tutoring to help with that, both from somebody at Burns Park and from a
private tutor my parents hired. Fifth grade went really well with a really
good teacher who was willing to do things a bit differently from what was the
stock Ann Arbor Public Schools way of doing elementary school at that time.
I then switched to Emerson, a private school in Ann Arbor for sixth grade,
and that went well too. Emerson put a lot of emphasis on students teaching
other students and let me do things at my own pace, which really helped a
lot. My teacher at Emerson also encouraged me to do my writing on the
computer, which made writing a lot easier than it was at Burns Park, where
word processors were generally frowned on.
I went to Tappan for seventh and eighth grades, and that experience
mostly turned me off to school again, after the year at Emerson where school
was actually something to enjoy. For most of my classes there there was one
right way to do things, and the only explanation that was needed for there
being only one way to do things was that what the teacher said went. There
were exceptions to this, and I had some really wonderful teachers there.
Linda Carter, my orchestra teacher who is now President of the teachers' union
always managed to make her class interesting and fun, while still teaching
us a lot about music. Marlene Brannon, the advisor to the school newspaper,
was the person who got me interested in journalism, which was the one thing
I really did well in and put a lot of effort into in middle school. Later,
as a Community student, I even went back to Tappan to help her teach the
newspaper class. There were other good teachers there too, but I think they
were the exception rather than the rule. All things considered, I hated
middle school.
Then I got to Community. Suddlenly I was trusted to do things on my
own, without constant adult supervision. If I decided I would rather be
somewhere other than school for whatever reason, nobody was going to stop me
from leaving. If I didn't want to take a class I didn't have to, as long as
I could come up with some other way to learn the same sort of stuff as that
class was teaching. If I wanted to do something that wasn't taught there,
all I had to do was find somebody to teach it. At Community, school was not
what some teacher or administrator thought it should be; it was what I wanted
it to be, and I learned a lot of things there that I never could have in a
more traditional setting.
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bru
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response 24 of 120:
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Sep 3 03:26 UTC 1995 |
i think the problem is in the size of the schools. They are to large to deal
with the needs of the individual students.
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