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Grex > Agora56 > #110: Fire crew sits idly by as resident faces blaze | |
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jadecat
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Fire crew sits idly by as resident faces blaze
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Feb 17 19:34 UTC 2006 |
Flames injure man who says he didn't know to pay dues.
NEWS-LEADER STAFF AND WIRES
Firefighters near Monett stood by and watched a fire destroy a garage
and a vehicle because the property owner, who was injured battling the
flames, had not paid membership dues.
Monett Rural Fire Department Chief Ronnie Myers defended the policy,
saying the membership-based organization could not survive if people
thought the department would respond for free. The department said it
will fight a fire without question if a life is believed to be in danger.
Myers said he would make an effort to explain the membership policy to
the area's new Hispanic residents after the property's owner, Bibaldo
Rueda, said he had never been told of the dues policy since moving there
1 1/2 years ago.
Barry County Sheriff's Detective Robert Evenson said the fire broke out
Monday on four acres owned by Rueda south of Monett, about 40 miles
southwest of Springfield.
Four mobile homes and a number of vehicles were on the property. Rueda
managed to get one mobile home out of danger, using a garden hose and
buckets, but was burned in the process, Evenson said.
The Monett Rural Fire Department responded to the scene but did not
fight the fire. Firefighters stood by as the fire burned itself out,
watching in case the flames spread to neighboring properties owned by
members.
"People need to realize you've got to become a member. If you live
outside the city limits, you need to join one of the rural fire
departments," Myers said.
Rueda offered to pay, Evenson said, but the Monett department does not
have a policy for on-the-spot billing.
Randy Cole, assistant state fire marshal, said there was no state law
requiring membership-supported fire districts to help nonmembers in any
situation.
However, state law says those departments may perform services for a
nonmember if they choose, and then charge the nonmember based on a set
amount outlined in statute, Cole said.
Though more membership-driven departments have been forming
tax-supported protection districts, they still remain prevalent in rural
regions across the state, he said.
Cassville and Mount Vernon have gone to tax- supported rural fire
districts, following a public vote, wherein all fires are fought.
Rural Monett members have not been asked to choose between memberships
and tax support, though they came out strongly against a proposed Aurora
Rural Bi-County Fire Protection District, which was voted down in 2001.
http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060217/NEWS01/60217
0368
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| 42 responses total. |
happyboy
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response 1 of 42:
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Feb 17 19:42 UTC 2006 |
another reason not to vote libertarian
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tod
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response 2 of 42:
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Feb 17 19:43 UTC 2006 |
I bet his property is a cheap grab. What's the address? ;)
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rcurl
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response 3 of 42:
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Feb 17 19:44 UTC 2006 |
This is in Monett *Missouri* (article above neglects to mention this). The
Monett web page says nothing about a membership requirement.
http://www.cityofmonett.com/city_departments/fire_department_index.htm
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nharmon
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response 4 of 42:
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Feb 17 19:56 UTC 2006 |
What does this have to do with libertarianism?
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jadecat
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response 5 of 42:
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Feb 17 19:58 UTC 2006 |
re #3- So perhaps the gentleman either has rural service and not city-
as the article mentions. Or the locals don't want strangers staying- so
they neglect to tell them about things like the membership dues for
rural fire service.
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marcvh
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response 6 of 42:
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Feb 17 20:02 UTC 2006 |
Some Libertarians would argue that fire response is an example of something
better served by the private sector rather than the government, at least
in some cases.
I would think that this guy's property insurance underwriter, if nobody
else, would have taken an interest in the fact that the properly had no
fire response available unless he paid for it at the time they extended
the policy.
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tod
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response 7 of 42:
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Feb 17 20:30 UTC 2006 |
Good thing it was only his garage and not his mobile home!
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nharmon
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response 8 of 42:
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Feb 17 21:03 UTC 2006 |
Re 6: But this really isn't an example of a private sector fire
department, is it?
It would really sicken me if #5 were the case. :(
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jadecat
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response 9 of 42:
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Feb 17 21:08 UTC 2006 |
resp:8 Did you see the bit in the article about how the rep said they
would make more of an effort to make sure Hispanic newcomers to the area
knew of the membership fee?
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nharmon
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response 10 of 42:
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Feb 17 22:07 UTC 2006 |
Yes :(
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kingjon
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response 11 of 42:
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Feb 17 22:22 UTC 2006 |
Re #9: That sounds like their information is all in English, and the Hispanics
aren't likely to have a sufficient grasp on the English language to understand
things of that complexity.
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scholar
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response 12 of 42:
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Feb 18 00:18 UTC 2006 |
yet the guy offered to pay the fee on the spot? (!!!)
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jadecat
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response 13 of 42:
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Feb 18 02:14 UTC 2006 |
resp:11 That's possibly the best way to look at it. Perhaps the most
naive as well.
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fitz
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response 14 of 42:
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Feb 20 14:21 UTC 2006 |
There exist other communities with similar schemes for homeowners to opt out
of fire protection. I can't remember the location of a previous municipality
with contracted fire protection, but it was before the age of computer data
bases. The fire department hammered medallions into the utitlity poles to
determine if a homeowner had paid his fee or not.
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keesan
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response 15 of 42:
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Feb 20 17:06 UTC 2006 |
There are also communities where you can dispose of your own trash instead
of having to pay taxes for it, but this tends to encourage littering.
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aruba
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response 16 of 42:
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Feb 23 04:59 UTC 2006 |
That's messed up.
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gull
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response 17 of 42:
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Feb 24 07:37 UTC 2006 |
Re resp:14: That used to be a common system of private fire protection
in some cities, before public fire departments. If you hadn't payed
for the proper medallion, that department wouldn't respond. Other
systems involved insurance companies contracting with fire departments,
or fire departments competing and the one that got "first water" on the
fire getting paid. That last system tended to encourage departments to
sabotage each other.
Re resp:15: When my parents lived in rural Saginaw County they had to
contract with a private company for trash pickup. There was a strict
limit on the number of bags you were allowed to put out, to discourage
neighbors from pooling their trash to try to get away with only paying
one fee. We had a big family, so we burned our garbage and paper waste
to keep under the limit.
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klg
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response 18 of 42:
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Feb 24 11:56 UTC 2006 |
In W Blmfld Twp MI we have to buy our trash service from a private
company. No limit on bags, though. But whereas my neighbors put out
2 - 4 garbage cans a wk, I generally have 1 plastic bag (+ recycling
bin once every 2 - 3 wks) All for only about 4 bucks a week.
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keesan
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response 19 of 42:
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Feb 24 15:58 UTC 2006 |
4 bucks a week is an awful lot to pay for trash pickup. I calculated once
it was $2/month in Ann Arbor. I put out a canful once every few months,
mostly with plastic parts of computers that we can't recycle here. We manage
to fill the paper recycling bin about once a month because of things like the
Observer, and getting 4 phone books every year. Maybe it is once in 2 months.
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klg
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response 20 of 42:
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Feb 24 17:13 UTC 2006 |
The government picks the contractor, so, of course, it is more
expensive than it ought to be.
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marcvh
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response 21 of 42:
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Feb 24 17:21 UTC 2006 |
Seattle's garbage rate for one standard-sized can (32 gallons) is also
about $4/week; extra garbage that won't fit into your can is $5.60/bag
for cubside pickup or $14/carload at the transfer station. Service is
compulsory, as is recycling.
It seems self-evident that in a crowded city there's less room for
people to do their own thing with respect to rubbish disposal and fire
protection than in a rural environment.
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tod
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response 22 of 42:
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Feb 24 17:24 UTC 2006 |
Out in unincorporated King County, we pay about $32/mo for collection. I
think the rate is about the same but we also have a yardwaste bin.
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marcvh
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response 23 of 42:
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Feb 24 17:26 UTC 2006 |
Curbside yard waste is an extra $1/week, but you have to make a long-term
commitment because they don't want people signing up for it for just a
couple weeks when they catch up on their gardening and then dropping it.
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tod
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response 24 of 42:
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Feb 24 17:37 UTC 2006 |
These are our rates up in Fairwood..
One 32-gal customer garbage can weekly $18.05
Clean recyclables in blue All-in-One recycling cart - Every Other Week (Free)
One 96-gal. Waste Management yard waste cart
Weekly Mar. through Nov., every other week Dec. through Feb. $9.85
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