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Grex > Agora47 > #34: Global warming claims at least 19000 dead in Europe in 2003 | |
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russ
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Global warming claims at least 19000 dead in Europe in 2003
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Sep 27 03:15 UTC 2003 |
At least 19,000 people died in this summer's heat wave in
Europe. France alone currently counts some 14,000. Spain
lists about 4,000, Italy 1176, and the toll is bound to rise;
Germany has only listed 40 deaths as due to the heat, a figure
which is all but certainly due to extremely narrow criteria.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2120733
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| 49 responses total. |
albaugh
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response 1 of 49:
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Sep 27 04:33 UTC 2003 |
Yep, it's all due to global warming, because lawdy we've never had heat waves
before thisun...
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scott
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response 2 of 49:
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Sep 27 05:36 UTC 2003 |
Obviously it's all a plot by those opposed to business.
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sj2
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response 3 of 49:
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Sep 27 06:50 UTC 2003 |
Yes, the same way it was a *plot* to bring in labour laws.
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remmers
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response 4 of 49:
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Sep 27 12:23 UTC 2003 |
Not that I'd say that the heat wave definitely *wasn't* caused by
global warming, nothing in the news story cited in #0 ties it to
that.
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twenex
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response 5 of 49:
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Sep 27 15:19 UTC 2003 |
Since records began more or less in the industrial era, who's to say from a
priori evidence that *all* of the previous heatwaves *weren't* caused by
a combination of global warming and weather patterns, hmm?
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sj2
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response 6 of 49:
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Sep 28 07:10 UTC 2003 |
What was the maximum temperature in Europe this summer? And people
mostly died of heat strokes?
In India, people die of heat strokes, mostly at places where
temperatures go above 50 degree celsius.
19000!!! Wow!!! Thats a pretty big number. But it didn't make that big
in the news somehow (compared to other disasters). And what are the
governments doing about it now?
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i
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response 7 of 49:
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Sep 28 12:23 UTC 2003 |
19000 people, mostly elderly/frail/etc., dying here & there over a period
of time is just not very interesting mass-media news. Society doesn't
value such folk's lives very highly (which is why they were mostly left
to die.) No excitement of shooting/fire/crash/etc. No deranged killer
stalking his next victim. Those at high risk themselves are a market
demographic that big advertisers don't much care about reaching.
Last i heard, the governments are mostly doing political damage control
and spin. They didn't care either until it became a scandal.
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klg
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response 8 of 49:
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Sep 29 01:40 UTC 2003 |
Mr. russ takes first place in the conclusion jump.
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mdw
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response 9 of 49:
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Sep 29 05:11 UTC 2003 |
Now would be a good time to buy stock in air conditioning firms in
europe.
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gull
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response 10 of 49:
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Sep 30 14:15 UTC 2003 |
Re #9: But not in the UK. There's a good chance the ocean current that
currently brings warm ocean water past Britain, warming the climate
there, will shut down; it's already slowed.
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eprom
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response 11 of 49:
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Sep 30 14:57 UTC 2003 |
I was watching a program on the History Channel about the Bubonic
Plague of europe in the 1300's; afterwards there was a time of
great economic prosperity.
Currently europe's unemployment rate tends to be higher (~8-9%) than
the U.S. (~3-5%) Maybe this is the proverbial shot-in-the-arm the
EU needs.
Hoorah for CFC's!!!
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gull
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response 12 of 49:
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Sep 30 17:48 UTC 2003 |
You're confusing two issues. CFCs are related to the ozone hole, but
have nothing to do with global warming as far as I know.
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carson
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response 13 of 49:
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Sep 30 23:20 UTC 2003 |
(CFCs deplete ozone and trap heat. carbon dioxide traps more heat in the
atmosphere, probably due to its relative volume. HCFCs and HFCs also trap
heat, but don't deplete ozone.)
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/archive/page.cfm?pageID=547
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rcurl
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response 14 of 49:
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Sep 30 23:51 UTC 2003 |
While there are many chemicals that can act as greenhouse gases, the most
important currently in terms of trapping heat in the atmosphere are water,
carbon dioxide, methane, and CFCs (see
http://www.ieagreen.org.uk/ch4-1.htm). The warming itself increases the
water in the atmosphere, giving a positive feedback that enlarges the
effect of the others.
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jep
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response 15 of 49:
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Oct 1 02:51 UTC 2003 |
re resp:11: The Plague in Europe, in three years (1347-1350), killed
maybe a third of the people in Europe. This led in turn to labor
shortages, which led to a lot of other effects, such as greater value
for laborers, a vast disruption in the existing social structure, and
eventually, popular rebellion, political upheaval, and more individual
rights.
When Patrick Henry said, "...give me liberty, or give me death!" he
was expressing what is perhaps a valid equation. If something killed
off 1/3 of the population of the world right now, in another 50 years
there'd probably be a lot less concern about the totalitarianism of
conglomerate corporations. The economic value of every person would
increase by a lot and the wealth would get a lot more spread out as a
result. There'd be more resources for everyone, too. Prices would
drop; those who lived would be able to buy a lot more stuff. Get rid
of 50,000 people at random from Ann Arbor and there'd be some pretty
swank houses left for the rest, for not much money.
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tod
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response 16 of 49:
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Oct 1 04:22 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jep
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response 17 of 49:
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Oct 1 15:57 UTC 2003 |
Call for volunteers?
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klg
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response 18 of 49:
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Oct 1 16:27 UTC 2003 |
Mr. jep: If population were to decline by 1/3 how, would you suppose,
the level of economic output would be sustained in order to achieve the
result you assume?
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slynne
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response 19 of 49:
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Oct 1 20:34 UTC 2003 |
Maybe the 1/3 that die off would be the least productive third.
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carson
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response 20 of 49:
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Oct 1 21:41 UTC 2003 |
(just like alcohol and brain cells!)
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gelinas
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response 21 of 49:
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Oct 2 02:39 UTC 2003 |
(Wouldn't matter; the equipment would still be there, the knowledge to run
it would still be there, so it won't take long to train up the survivors.
Besides, one of those megatrends is that fewer people are needed to keep up
modern production rates.)
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tsty
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response 22 of 49:
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Oct 2 07:13 UTC 2003 |
if two poitns makes a straight line, it would tehn seem to be true
that france has as much concern for its elderly as it does for
the iraqui peopole - off on holiday and let the weak die.
/
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mcnally
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response 23 of 49:
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Oct 2 07:50 UTC 2003 |
your logic seems less than compelling..
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goose
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response 24 of 49:
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Oct 2 13:49 UTC 2003 |
...or logical...
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