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| Author |
Message |
gull
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Self-bugging systems.
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Nov 20 15:51 UTC 2003 |
An appeals court recently rejected the FBI's attempt to use a
navigation/roadside assitance system (probably On*Star's competitor,
Tele-Aid) to eavesdrop on a suspect, but only after the FBI had listened
for 30 days. It was rejected because using the system this way blocked
its normal function, so in theory if the system were designed
differently this could be legal. The article is here:
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/7491
A security expert I talked to once referred to things like On*Star,
cordless phones, and wireless microphones as "self-bugging systems"
because they make it easy for anyone who wants to listen in on you --
you've planted the bug yourself. I'm not sure people think about the
privacy implications enough when they buy into this kind of technology.
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| 27 responses total. |
gelinas
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response 1 of 27:
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Nov 20 17:15 UTC 2003 |
I certainly do, and those (un)fortunate enough to be within range of my
voice when an On*Star commercial comes on have been made aware as well.
(I've even mentioned it in other contexts, when the opportunity arises.)
If On*Star can track my car *after* it's been stolen, it can track it
*before* it's been stolen, too.
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glenda
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response 2 of 27:
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Nov 20 18:09 UTC 2003 |
Gee, Joe, it sounds like your house sounds like our house. STeve and I gag
when those commercials come on.
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happyboy
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response 3 of 27:
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Nov 20 19:34 UTC 2003 |
my wife and i scream at them as well.
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albaugh
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response 4 of 27:
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Nov 20 20:33 UTC 2003 |
Only the truly paranoid...
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remmers
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response 5 of 27:
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Nov 20 22:04 UTC 2003 |
I choose to be silently indignant.
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twenex
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response 6 of 27:
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Nov 20 22:33 UTC 2003 |
"What do you give the man who suspects everyone?"
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drew
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response 7 of 27:
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Nov 21 01:37 UTC 2003 |
Re #4: Better paranoid than destroyed.
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happyboy
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response 8 of 27:
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Nov 21 02:13 UTC 2003 |
r4: or those that live in the land of ashkkkroft.
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pvn
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response 9 of 27:
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Nov 21 07:23 UTC 2003 |
THe question is not if I am paranoid, the question is, am I paranoid
enough.
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tsty
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response 10 of 27:
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Nov 21 09:13 UTC 2003 |
becoming a voluntary , seduced, ward of the state has a seductive appeal.
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albaugh
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response 11 of 27:
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Nov 21 17:59 UTC 2003 |
Yeah, life these days is just one Orwellian terror...
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sj2
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response 12 of 27:
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Nov 21 18:11 UTC 2003 |
This is no surprise. Your cellphone can be turned into a bugging device
if the your service provider's engineer wishes so. The protocol allows
for the phone to be turned *on* in order to eavesdrop on conversations
within the phone's vicinity.
Lesson: Don't scream at that support engineer at the call-centre when
your SP overbills you ;) You don't know whom you might be pissing off.
Technology has entered daily lives so fast that its possible abuses
were totally overlooked.
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other
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response 13 of 27:
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Nov 22 03:49 UTC 2003 |
"support engineer"? Is that supposed to be a joke?
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sj2
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response 14 of 27:
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Nov 22 08:38 UTC 2003 |
Whats funny about *support engineer*?
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carson
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response 15 of 27:
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Nov 22 16:27 UTC 2003 |
(it's funny that a service provider actually has support engineers.)
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jep
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response 16 of 27:
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Nov 22 22:29 UTC 2003 |
You've probably never talked to a "support engineer" in your life when
calling a phone number to obtain home end user help. The title would
imply they have an engineering degree. "Support engineers" travel
from site to site, doing hands-on analysis to determine the cause of
difficult problems for other corporations, or more likely, work behind
the scenes to help on-site techs who do that.
When you talk to a support rep on the phone for any type of consumer
assistance, you're probably talking to someone making $8 per hour in
an entry level job. If they seem unusually competent, they might be
making $10-12 per hour and are probably in a union. When they
say "let me check that out", it probably means they're in their first
few weeks on the job and need to ask someone else for an answer. It
could mean they're looking for an answer in a database.
The people I call when I have (not infrequent) problems with Cingular
Wireless are certainly not engineers. They're all right; they care
about my problems, and know about basic issues. Pretty often, if I
were to call back and state my problem to someone else, I'd get a
completely different answer, though.
I work in software support. From time to time, an employer calls me
a "support engineer", but I'm no engineer or anything resembling one.
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other
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response 17 of 27:
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Nov 22 23:19 UTC 2003 |
My point was that the notion of an actual engineer with the ability
and authority to turn your cell-phone into a bugging device being in
a position to provide customer support to people pissed off and
dealing with a call center is patently ridiculous.
But then, this is far too deep a discussion of what I'm sure was an
offhand remark anyway.
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sj2
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response 18 of 27:
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Nov 23 05:58 UTC 2003 |
:) Yes, I can understand that.
I was referring to situations where someone who actually understands
how the damn thing works has to come on the phone instead of your
friendly neighbourhood support rep. Example is, I was trying to setup
the WAP service on my cell when the SP had just launched it. The call
centre rep had no idea what I was talking about. Other times I had to
talk to a support engineer was trying out GPRS, VPN over GPRS,
checking the feasibility of using GPRS with portable lottery machines
etc etc.
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scott
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response 19 of 27:
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Nov 23 14:08 UTC 2003 |
First-line support reps have a database of problems & solutions, as well as
a few simple rules like rebooting for the first fix. If they can't figure
it out you might get escalated to an actual engineer.
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remmers
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response 20 of 27:
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Nov 23 14:47 UTC 2003 |
(Programmers without engineering degrees quite commonly call themselves
"software engineers".)
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other
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response 21 of 27:
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Nov 23 17:00 UTC 2003 |
Yes, but those who design as well as code their software are
actually engineering something, which is not something I would say
of someone who staffs a support call center.
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sj2
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response 22 of 27:
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Nov 24 05:46 UTC 2003 |
Software engineer is different from software programmer. A programmer
may not necessarily engineer software.
A support guy might be an engineer by educational qualification.
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other
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response 23 of 27:
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Nov 24 06:05 UTC 2003 |
a CALL CENTER support staffer who is a qualified engineer is under-
employed.
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sj2
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response 24 of 27:
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Nov 24 08:11 UTC 2003 |
Certainly.
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