|
Grex > Agora47 > #175: shopping for a car, this time because I have to | |
|
| Author |
Message |
jep
|
|
shopping for a car, this time because I have to
| 
Nov 16 15:08 UTC 2003 |
I totalled my car recently by hitting a deer. Now I'm looking for a
new car. Meanwhile, I've been driving my pickup truck to and from
work, to the tune of about $75 per week.
So, I am buying another car in the next week or so.
|
| 120 responses total. |
jep
|
|
response 1 of 120:
|
Nov 16 15:13 UTC 2003 |
I was more or less looking at two or three cars, and more or less
basing my choices on Consumer Reports on-line. From their reviews, I
settled on a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. They're two excellent
cars from the reviews, with great gas mileage (near 40 mph), and the
features I want (air, cruise, 5 speed, CD player) for a price I can
afford; aroun $15,000.
But I'm a member of a GM family. I have a dad who retired from GM,
and a brother working for Saturn. Consumer Reports really hates GM;
none of their cars are reviewed as being very good, and the ones in my
price range are rated as horrid. I was interested in a Pontiac
Sunfire or Saturn Ion or something like that. They're described in
terms that make it clear you'd be nuts to buy one.
Anyway, I called a local GM dealer to see what the family discount is,
and it's remarkable; it's a couple of thousand dollars. Also, Chevy
Cavaliers are drawing $4000 rebates right now. In addition to that,
there's a financing discount; if you put up to $2000 down, you get
half of that amount as a rebate. I could buy a Cavalier with
everything I want except cruise control for around $8500. It's EPA
rated at 26/37. Consumer Reports tests cars for mileage, and they're
usually not too far off from the EPA numbers.
The Cavalier is a crummy car compared to a Corolla or Civic, but it's
a little more than half the money for me. I'm no car nut. I just
want to get to and from work, and go on occasional vacations.
Sunroofs, spoilers, alloy wheels, etc. do very little for me, I find,
when I contemplate paying for them. I'm thinking this Cavalier might
well do all I need. It even comes in different colors. Many cars
come in shades of black and white, plus red, and that's it. This one
can be had in green (Go State!), or yellow, orange, or a few other
colors. As long as it doesn't cost more, that's a bonus.
|
keesan
|
|
response 2 of 120:
|
Nov 16 15:58 UTC 2003 |
What would a used Toyota Corolla cost you? How much would it save you on
gasoline per year?
|
tpryan
|
|
response 3 of 120:
|
Nov 16 18:33 UTC 2003 |
A two year old used car, bought with *regular* finance
rate, could end up costing more per month.
|
slynne
|
|
response 4 of 120:
|
Nov 16 18:54 UTC 2003 |
While I am no GM fan, I am not sure you can go wrong at $8500. I mean,
at that price, does it really matter if it only lasts half as long as a
Honda?
|
scott
|
|
response 5 of 120:
|
Nov 16 19:25 UTC 2003 |
Depends on what it costs to fix, and how often it need to be fixed.
|
slynne
|
|
response 6 of 120:
|
Nov 16 20:43 UTC 2003 |
Yeah, but how often does a new car need to be fixed? Even if it is a GM
car. Does it come with any kind of warranty?
|
aruba
|
|
response 7 of 120:
|
Nov 16 22:46 UTC 2003 |
I really like my Honda Civic, which has served well for 13 years, but if I
got a couple thousand dollars' discount for buying GM, I think I'd go for
it too.
My mother came from a GM family too - her Dad was a lifer. But she gave up
on GM after her 1976 Chevy Chevette.
|
jep
|
|
response 8 of 120:
|
Nov 17 03:10 UTC 2003 |
The dealer I talked to told me there's basically no possibility of
negotiating on price when you get the GM discount, because they're
selling the car at factory price anyway. I'll check on that (by
asking for price at another dealership or two)... but does anyone know
if it's true?
I wish the GM WWW sites showed the family discount in the price, so I
could really compare their cars to others.
re resp:2: If someone is selling a 2 year old Corolla, chances seem
pretty good it's got problems.
A year ago when I brought up the discussions about buying cars, I
thought I'd prefer a used one. I also thought I'd have the chance to
take my time, check out different cars, and get to know a little about
what I was doing. Right now, if I came across a $2000-3000 used car
that was pretty reliable, I'd buy it. The problem I have is that I
don't know how to tell a good used car from a bad one.
And I have got to get out of driving my pickup truck quickly. I am
spending $75 per week just in gas. (I'll pay for a Cavalier in about
3 years at that rate.) The truck has 150,000 miles on it. If
something happens to it before I have another car, I am in a very
difficult position.
I have spent maybe $2000 in car repairs this calendar year. I'm not
willing to pay for another car *and* keep a big repair bill too.
I'm focusing on gas mileage as my priority. I have even considered
the hybrid cars, Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid. Unfortunately,
I drive enough miles (25-30K per year) that the expected life span of
the batteries (100,000 miles) might catch up to me before the price on
the batteries drops enough to make replacement worthwhile. Right now,
replacement batteries are about $4000. I expect I'll look at hybrids
again in a few years.
|
twenex
|
|
response 9 of 120:
|
Nov 17 05:10 UTC 2003 |
Bit of a pickle.
|
sj2
|
|
response 10 of 120:
|
Nov 17 07:51 UTC 2003 |
I would rate cars on the following :-
- Price (ofcourse)
- Price and availability of spares. Do they have a 24 hour spares shop
in your vicinity? Here, surprisingly, Mercedes spares are cheaper than
Toyota.
- Free service with the new car. Here (Oman), Toyota gives 2-3 years
of free service with the car depending on the model.
- Quality of service. Check with other owners. Also check how long
they take to service your car. Here, Toyota services the car within 6
hours. Mitsubishi takes a day. If informed a day in advance, Toyota
even arranges for a car for the six hours.
- Check for warranty conditions. Here, Mitsubishi sends you a list of
spares to be changed every year. If you fail to change them, the
warranty is void.
- Resale value. If you plan to change your car in the next 4-5 years,
how much would you get for it? How fast can you sell it off, if needed?
|
mary
|
|
response 11 of 120:
|
Nov 17 11:54 UTC 2003 |
Edmunds.com should be able to tell you what the dealer
pays for any car on the lot. They go to the link reporting
any incentives the manufacturer will be paying the dealer.
I know for a fact that having this information saved us
at least a couple of thousand dollars a car.
I wouldn't own anything but a Civic. I bonded 25 years ago. ;-)
|
mary
|
|
response 12 of 120:
|
Nov 17 11:55 UTC 2003 |
s/then/they
|
remmers
|
|
response 13 of 120:
|
Nov 17 13:33 UTC 2003 |
I gave up on GM after my 1971 Chevy Vega experience. This highly
touted "Motor Trend Car of the Year" was a pile of junk two years
later. Switched to Toyota for my next car and have purchased only
Japanese cars since. To be fair, I think Detroit has gotten its
quality control act together much better since the 1970s, not
because they wanted to but because the foreign competition forced
them to. But still, Toyota and Honda still seem to lead the
field in low frequency of repair records. My current car is a
Toyota Camry.
Just my two cents. Not sure that it helps John out all that much.
|
russ
|
|
response 14 of 120:
|
Nov 17 13:58 UTC 2003 |
If you get GM discounts but you'd rather have a Toyota for quality, look
at the Pontiac Vibe (a re-badged Toyota Matrix, IIRC). If they are not
discounting it, maybe you should ask why the other cars are going so cheap.
Re #2: If the difference in gas mileage is 40 MPG vs. 35 MPG and
fuel costs $2.00/gallon, it would take... let's see.
$6500 / [ (1/(35 mpg) - 1/(40 mpg)) * $2/gallon ]
= $6500 / ( 1/280 gallons/mile * $2/gallon )
= $6500 / (1/140 $/mile)
= 910,000 miles to make up a difference of $6500 in initial cost,
ignoring the time value of money.
This is rather extreme. In contrast, the price-premium of a hybrid over a
conventional car is supposed to be about $1800, and the mileage improvement
is typically from 25 MPG to ~40 MPG.
$1800 / [ (1/(25 mpg) - 1/(40 mpg)) * $2/gallon ]
= $1800 / (.015 gallon/mile * $2/gallon)
= $1800 / ( $.03 $/mile )
= 60,000 miles to make up the difference.
If gasoline cost $5/gallon, it would be 24,000 miles.
|
jp2
|
|
response 15 of 120:
|
Nov 17 14:15 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
|
keesan
|
|
response 16 of 120:
|
Nov 17 15:41 UTC 2003 |
Don't assume that a used car (say 4 years old) would need the same amount of
repairs as the 1992 car you were driving. WHat is the cost of a 4 year old
Toyota?
|
twenex
|
|
response 17 of 120:
|
Nov 17 15:46 UTC 2003 |
Someone might be selling a 1>2 year old machine because they need to, not
because there is anything wrong with it. Any used car should come with a full
service history, manuals, and be checked for rust and a working gearbox, etc.
|
edina
|
|
response 18 of 120:
|
Nov 17 15:50 UTC 2003 |
John, my mom drives a Cavalier - it's her 4th one. If you want, give her a
call and ask her - she also got hers on the discount.
|
gull
|
|
response 19 of 120:
|
Nov 17 16:18 UTC 2003 |
The main complaint I've heard about the new Saturns (other than the
styling, which I personally hate) is that they have extremely wide
turning radiuses for small cars. I've jokingly suggested that since GM
is advertising the four-wheel-steering version of the Suburban as having
a turning radius "the same as a Saturn sedan," maybe they had to cripple
the sedan's turning radius a bit to meet that target. ;>
|
bru
|
|
response 20 of 120:
|
Nov 17 16:56 UTC 2003 |
My saturn was a good car, very dependable, but after 60,000 it started using
oil. on the other hand, a guy I worked with had the same saturn I had and
had 200,000 on it with no oil usage, but he did maintain the oil changes at
3000 which I did not.
I also loved my Cavalier. It took a head on collission at 60 mph and the
passenger compartment stayed intact. No one in our car was injured, everybody
in the other car was. WE wore our seat belts, tehy did not. (we were both
going about 30 mph on a very slippery road.) They were driving a ford.
|
twenex
|
|
response 21 of 120:
|
Nov 17 18:09 UTC 2003 |
Cavaliers were great. We had a GTX (or something) souped-up sports version.
(They *were* great because in Europe they've been replaced by the "Vectra").
We had an old Voilvo that took a collision coming out of a cul-de-sac w/i a
guy in a Renault 5 who was blind by choice (i.e. he didn't look where he was
going). Totalled the Renault, though IIRC the guy was ok; on the left side,
where he hit us, the Volvo's indicator light broke.
|
jep
|
|
response 22 of 120:
|
Nov 17 18:34 UTC 2003 |
My brother works for Saturn. A half year ago, when I asked him, he
advised me to avoid the Ion. I plan to talk to him and see if he
thinks they're better now, but if he's not willing to heartily
recommend it, I don't want one.
Discounts available to me for the Chevy Cavalier and Pontiac Sunfire,
the two GM cars I am considering:
-- $4000 discount for the model (or they have these basic car specials
which amounts to about the same discount)
-- about $2000 employee/family discount
-- 50% of the down payment up to $2000 (up to $1000 discount). This is
also for employees and family.
|
jep
|
|
response 23 of 120:
|
Nov 17 18:51 UTC 2003 |
I have never in my life heard a good word spoken about the Jim Bradley
dealership. I went to them around 10 years ago when I was thinking of
buying a Saturn and became the only person I know who was ever treated
shabbily by a Saturn dealer.
Not to hold a grudge, though... if anyone here can say anything nice
about them, I'll probably at least talk to them.
Mary and John, do you buy your Hondas at Howard Cooper? There *is*
something to be said about Consumer Reports and probably everyone else
saying the car you're buying is the best built car in it's class.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 24 of 120:
|
Nov 17 18:55 UTC 2003 |
No one has mentioned the consideration of whether a car meets one's
desires for functionality for one's own uses. Mine have been a station
wagon (not SUV) with 4- or All- wheel drive, and a manual transmission,
at the lowest cost. That combination pretty much limited me to a Subaru.
|