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Grex > Agora47 > #161: Israeli Heroes Kill Ten-year-old Bird Terrorist | |
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willcome
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Israeli Heroes Kill Ten-year-old Bird Terrorist
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Nov 8 04:16 UTC 2003 |
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=461648
Mahmud, 10, went looking for songbirds ... and died in hail of bullets
By Justin Huggler in Shajiyeh, Gaza Strip
08 November 2003
Mahmud al-Qayed was out doing what he did every Friday - catching
songbirds in cages to sell in the markets of Gaza. But yesterday the
remote olive groves where the birds nest led him close to the fence
separating the Gaza Strip from Israel. Too close for the soldiers
guarding the fence.
They shot Mahmud, 10, four times, killing him as he tried to run.
The boy's father, Mohammed, was with him, and, at the funeral, he told
how he took the bloodstained sweater from his son's dead body, and
buried his face in it.
Mahmud was one of a group of about 20 - the rest were adults - who
ventured out to the fence to catch the songbirds, which can fetch good
money in the markets. There are plenty of witnesses who saw the group
on their way to the fence, and confirm that they were there to catch
birds.
But the Israeli army said that it had spotted three people laying what
it says were electric wires and tubes used in explosives, and that is
why it opened fire. According to the witnesses, what the group were
laying were the cages that trap the birds.
This was not the first time a birdcatcher has been killed next to the
fence here. Mahmud was the fifth to die here since the intifada began
in 2000. He was the youngest, but before him a 15-year-old and a 13-
year-old had also been killed.
It is a beautiful spot, narrow lanes fringed by tall cactus lead to
the largely undisturbed olive groves that are home to the songbirds.
In these autumn nights, the air is full of the smoke of the woodfires
that warm the locals.
But on the other side of the fence may be seen a completely different
landscape of vast, open modern fields and the Israeli farm town of
Nakhal Oz, which in the past has been a target for attacks by
Palestinian militants.
The Israeli army has declared the olive groves in this area off-limits
to Palestinians, to protect Nakhal Oz.
But, in spite of the danger, the birdcatchers still come. Money and
work are desperately scarce, and what was once a hobby has become, for
many, a living.
Last week, said Mahmud's father, the boy managed to catch two song-
sparrows and a rare songbird, a khudr. In normal times, this rare bird
alone could fetch almost 100. In the current economic collapse, the
boy sold all three for less than 10. But it was still enough to buy
himself a new bicycle, and not many children can afford those in Gaza
these days.
A witness, who would give his name only as Abu Subhi, who lives near
the olive groves and saw the birdcatchers on their way to plant their
traps, says the Israeli soldiers should be well aware that the
birdcatchers still come and are no threat. He says some visit the
groves almost every day.
Last night the Israeli army insisted that the only reason for
Palestinians to move close to the fence was to attack Nakhal Oz.
Surrounded by mourners at the funeral, Mahmud's father, Mohammed, told
how his son had been killed. "We left home at around 5am. My
neighbour, my son and I," he said.
"I was driving the donkey-cart. We got to Shajiyeh at around 6am. We
put out our traps and waited for the birds. We were about 700 metres
from the border. They [Israeli forces] fired two shells, that landed
near the electricity pylon, about 200 metres from us. We stayed on the
ground because we were waiting for the birds. Then we saw five
soldiers approaching with helmets and everything. I ran. My son could
not get away."
Nimur abu 'As'us, a 26-year-old who was with the group, was wounded
and witnessed Mahmud's death.
Speaking from a hospital bed, he said: "The soldiers chased us. I was
running, the boy was running too. They shot at both of us. I was hit
in the leg. They hit him with four bullets. They shouted to stop and
he stopped. I kept running, I looked back and I saw him stop. I saw
the bullets hit him. If he hadn't stopped perhaps they would have
killed both of us."
His face grew dark. "Perhaps the fact he stopped saved my life."
After that, he said, a crowd of Palestinians came running to see what
was happening and the soldiers gave up the chase. At first, Mr 'As'us
said, the soldiers took Mahmud's body away, then later returned it.
Mohammed said: "I took his sweater. I hugged it, then I buried my face
in his blood. It was wrong to kill him. He was young, he was no
threat, he just wanted to catch a bird. Where are the human rights?
Where are the children's rights?
"They kill children. That is wrong."
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| 92 responses total. |
other
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response 1 of 92:
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Nov 8 05:50 UTC 2003 |
Peace will come only when the Palestinians love their children more
than they hate Israel.
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eprom
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response 2 of 92:
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Nov 8 06:28 UTC 2003 |
wow....that's sad.
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pvn
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response 3 of 92:
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Nov 8 07:13 UTC 2003 |
Yep, during wartime bad things happen. This is nothing new, has been
going on for awhile now. In the specific individual case it is no less
sad. The kid looked like a duck, walked like a duck, quacked like a
duck, and was in a flock of what looked like ducks to a group of yids
(rhymes) hunting for ducks and he got shot. No surprise there.
Make no mistake, this is wartime there.
WHen the author of #0 enters an item about the 10 year old yid (rhyme)
who dies during a homicide bombing by the PLA kid with equal evocative
detail then (s)he will at least seem evenhanded but even then what is
the f-ing point? War is not good for small children? Well, duh!
During a war people die? No duh!
I mean, why is this even news? Duh!
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willcome
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response 4 of 92:
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Nov 8 08:30 UTC 2003 |
other: how dare you libel Mahmud's parents before they've even put
their son in the earth.
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tsty
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response 5 of 92:
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Nov 8 08:30 UTC 2003 |
bad parents - failed t teach your children well ... sad, very sad
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willcome
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response 6 of 92:
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Nov 8 08:31 UTC 2003 |
tsty: did your parents teach you not to go near fences, for fear of
being shot by a tank?
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pvn
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response 7 of 92:
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Nov 8 09:33 UTC 2003 |
His parents if they were smart and if they lived near fences where one
would be shot dead by a tank for going near if they was at all
interested in raising children instead of 'martyrs' probably would have
taught him such about what when he began to walk. Its not rocket
science you know. The Yids shoot at what looks like ducks so don't look
like a duck. Duh.
Think of it as evolution in action.
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slynne
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response 8 of 92:
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Nov 8 13:43 UTC 2003 |
resp:1 - I cant believe those Palestinians hated their kid so much that
they made him get shot by Israeli soldiers just because it would mean
bad press?
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tod
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response 9 of 92:
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Nov 8 16:22 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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willcome
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response 10 of 92:
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Nov 8 17:40 UTC 2003 |
pvn: if your daughter went outside and got raped, who would you
blame? Wouldn't you blame yourself? Afterall, outside's where girls
get raped.
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lk
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response 11 of 92:
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Nov 8 21:40 UTC 2003 |
"Outside" is pretty big and one's odds of being raped pretty low.
Would pvn let his daughter walk alone at night in some dark corner
of Central Park? I don't think so.
Let me remind you of the words of Shimon Peres, formerly a Prime
Minister of Israel and most recently the foreign minister:
|| In war, mistakes will happen.
|| But the greatest mistake is in going to war.
Obviously, Lynne, we can't speak specifically about the parents of
this child. It may well have been tragic. But recall the episode of
12-year-old intifada poster-boy Mohammed al-Dura? We may never know
if his father was in on it, but evidence suggests that the child's murder
was staged in front of TV cameras in an effort to frame Israel.
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/06/fallows.htm
Then there are the parents who upon the death of one child express the hope
that all their children will become martyrs.
And PA ads on official government TV, showing forged film footage depicting
al-Dura being intentionally shot by Israeli troops, his voice calling out
for other children to put down their toys in favor of weapons and join him.
And editorials in official papers saying that those who oppose the use of
children in the struggle are traitors who should be treated as "collaborators".
School textbooks don't mention the peace process, don't show Israel on the map
(it's all "Palestine"), and repeat the mantra that Israel must be destroyed
and that the only good Jew is a dead Jew (OK, I'm slightly exaggerating on
the last). [www.edume.org]
Is it any wonder that some 10-year olds pick up a rusty old rifle and go to
attack Israelis? That these children are then shot by Israeli troops who
don't know that the rifle won't fire and who don't know if the child is
booby-trapped with explosives to be detonated if they use non-lethal force?
Can the adults really claim that he did this of his own volition?
(As if this just goes to show us how horrible is the Israeli "oppression"?)
Let me tell you another "non-secret". Most of the "militants" are in their
teenage years or early 20s. For most of the last 10 years they've lived
under the dictatorship of Arafat (Israel had withdrawn from the areas
where 98% of the Arab population of the disputed territories resides).
Their formative years were not under Israeli "occupation" or "oppression"
and these are not the "root causes" for their terrorism.
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mcnally
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response 12 of 92:
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Nov 9 02:54 UTC 2003 |
Wow.
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willcome
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response 13 of 92:
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Nov 9 03:19 UTC 2003 |
lk, maybe you should have read the next month's issue of the Atlantic,
in which a debunking of the al-Dura (God bless his soul) article is
published.
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sj2
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response 14 of 92:
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Nov 9 05:52 UTC 2003 |
Let me see ... Al-Qaeda declares war on the US. Al-Qaeda bombs US.
People get killed. Who's to blame?? Ofcourse, the people. They should
know better, its wartime there!!! Why are they going to offices,
schools or public places??
The point is that a Palestinian civilian death is as deplorable as an
Israeli or US. And the killers as guilty.
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cross
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response 15 of 92:
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Nov 9 06:11 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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lk
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response 16 of 92:
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Nov 9 16:15 UTC 2003 |
Yes, sj2, any death is deplorable and tragic and every innocent life
is worth as much as any other. But there is no comparison between
terrorists who premeditatively murder as many innocents as they can
and a soldier who in error mistakes a civilian for a terrorist and
shoots him dead.
But what you say is complete nonsense. That people shouldn't go to
work or school (or stay home?) because it's war. Terrorism takes war
to the people. That's why Israelis aren't safe anywhere. Not at home,
not at school, not at work, not at malls, cafes, restaurants or clubs.
Nor riding buses or driving between these locations.
By your "logic", all Israelis should live in locked bomb-shelters.
The same cannot be said about Palestinian Arabs. With only a few exceptions,
they are safe at all of these places. There is a well demarcated and known
front for the war.
Which is why the majority of Israeli deaths have been civilians who were
murdered while the majority of Arab deaths have been militants engaged
in hostile action.
It's why Israeli deaths represent a cross-section of the populace (women,
children, and elderly) while these groups are severely under-represented
(about 1/10th the statistical number) among Arab deaths.
Today, a Palestinian lawmaker admitted that the PA funds the Al-Aqsa
Martyr's Brigade to the tune of $50,000 per month, indicating that this
terrorism, taking war to the people, has been official PA policy.
Is anyone surprised?
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willcome
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response 17 of 92:
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Nov 9 17:38 UTC 2003 |
lk, he was being sarcastic, which is better than you being disingenous.
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happyboy
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response 18 of 92:
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Nov 9 19:03 UTC 2003 |
one-note samba
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sj2
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response 19 of 92:
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Nov 9 19:32 UTC 2003 |
For the record, I will clarify that I was being sarcastic, lk.
Civilians should be able to go about their lives. Whether its lazing in
cafes by the roadside or trapping birds for their livelihood.
The majority of palestinian deaths have been of so-called militants.
Who's to judge?? I guess only Israelis armed forces!!
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lk
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response 20 of 92:
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Nov 10 03:34 UTC 2003 |
Sorry, I've heard that stated seriously too often to take it as sarcasm.
Who is to judge? Look at the names/sexes and ages of the dead, even as
broken down by such organizations as Betselem. Only about 5% of the Arab
casualties are female and only about 5% are children 14 and under, yet each
of these groups represent (a partially overlapping) 50% of the population.
As I've pointed out before, despite the 3:1 death ratio between Arabs and
Israelis, more than 3x as many Israeli women have been killed than Arab
women (in raw numbers!!), meaning that as a percentage this factor is
about 10x.
Again, the Israeli deaths nearly approximate a cross-section of the
population -- precisely because Israelis are killed randomly. Yet
Arab casualties are mostly men aged 17-30. Clearly this isn't happening
because Israel is randomly shelling Arab villages (it's not). Nor is it
merely a coincidence that this group has a very high correlation with
those involved in terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians.
I just checked the statistics. From 27-Sep-2000 through 03-Nov-2003,
there were 85 Arab female non-combatants killed compared to 268 Israeli
women. Looking at the elderly (>=45), there were 80 Arab non-combatants
killed and 218 Israelis killed.
Which is too many people being killed any way you slice it, but that
shouldn't cloud us as to who is being killed by whom.
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sj2
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response 21 of 92:
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Nov 10 08:04 UTC 2003 |
Who is to judge whether they really were terrorists?
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tod
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response 22 of 92:
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Nov 10 18:27 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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cross
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response 23 of 92:
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Nov 10 18:29 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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sj2
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response 24 of 92:
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Nov 11 08:29 UTC 2003 |
My question is does the Israeli police get any Israeli court to issue
arrest warrants for these suspects? Do they present any evidence to a
court of law proving their terrorist activities?
If a person is killed by Israeli security forces, what is the process
by which he/she was convicted and executed?
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