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richard
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Children's nudist camps
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Jun 24 23:33 UTC 2003 |
From wire reports:
"Camping in the Buff
Nudist Camps for Kids Get Mixed Reaction
By Jill Barton
The Associated Press
W E S T P A L M B EA C H, Fla., June 24 U.S. Rep. Mark Foley urged
Florida officials to investigate a nudist camp for children, saying it
subjects the children to denigrating and dangerous behavior and could
expose them to pedophiles.
The weeklong summer camp run by the American Association for Nude
Recreation outside of Tampa allows children ages 11 to 18 get together
for games and sports and discussions about their choice to stay in the
buff.
Foley, co-chairman of the Congressional Missing and Exploited
Children's Caucus, sent a letter Thursday to Gov. Jeb Bush and Attorney
General Charlie Crist asking them to determine whether the camp was
legal and to consider toughening state statutes against such activities.
"Obviously I have no way of knowing whether illegal behavior is taking
place in this camp, but the situation clearly raises legitimate issues
that should be addressed given that it involves minor children," Foley,
R-West Palm Beach, said in the letter.
Bush had not yet reviewed the letter and had no comment, spokeswoman
Alia Faraj said on Thursday.
Erich Schuttauf, executive director of the American Association for
Nude Recreation, said he applauded Foley for looking to protect
children.
"We're on the same team. We're about the same thing, we believe in
strong families," Schuttauf said. "Here, we talk frankly about body
parts, about how to respect your body and make sure everyone else does,
too."
Though some trespassers have entered the camp, security officials
always have removed them from the private property before they
interacted with any children or teenagers, he said.
Steve Vickers, who went to the summer camp for five years before
becoming a counselor, said Foley has the wrong idea about the camp. He
said a strict line is drawn between nudism and sexuality, and no one
would consider abusing the distinction.
"There was a definite split. When you're nude, it's like family time,"
Vickers said. "And when you're at school, and you see the same people,
then you could talk about dating or things like that."
Vickers grew up at a nudist resort in Kissimmee, about 85 miles east of
the summer camp held near Tampa in Lutz. He said some of the 30
children and teenagers who attended the camp also lived at nudist
resorts across the country but others lived in traditional
neighborhoods and took off their clothes only on weekends.
He described himself and others at the nudist camp as "moral
extremists," noting that several of his friends at the camp remained
virgins through high school, unlike many other teens they knew.
Still, Foley questioned how such an environment could be described
as "wholesome."
He also distinguished it from computer-related behavior, such as
Internet porn and child modeling, that he's spoken out against. Those
activities at least must go through filters, he said.
"In this particular situation, you're actually putting these children
together with adults," he said. "It's a little bizarre to me that
parents would even consider putting their children in such a situation."
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| 60 responses total. |
richard
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response 1 of 60:
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Jun 24 23:35 UTC 2003 |
what do you think of this concept? It is true, surveys have said, that
many children and teenagers grow up too "body sensitive" Nudist
advocates would surely say that a children's nudist camp would teach
them to become more comfortable with their bodies and thus with the
world in general.
But others would say that nudist camps for children has more of a
downside to it as a concept than its upside
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cross
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response 2 of 60:
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Jun 24 23:41 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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rcurl
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response 3 of 60:
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Jun 25 00:01 UTC 2003 |
What do most families do about nudity at home when their children are growing
up? We never made anything of nudity when it was natural to be nude. I
wonder if these blue-noses followed some rules about being undressed
when they were growing up.
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jmsaul
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response 4 of 60:
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Jun 25 02:40 UTC 2003 |
The kids going to this camp are children of nudists. If this camp didn't
exist, they'd be hanging out at nudist resorts with their families anyway.
You have to consider it in that context.
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jazz
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response 5 of 60:
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Jun 25 03:13 UTC 2003 |
You know, I've heard, though I haven't seen evidence, that urinating
in a public park is now considered an offence that puts you on the sex
offender list. If so, it and this join the ranks of some of the sillier ideas
that I've heard of people getting confused in their zealotry against sexual
abuse.
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polygon
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response 6 of 60:
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Jun 25 04:23 UTC 2003 |
Justice Voelker of the Michigan Supreme Court wrote a great opinion
about this issue in the 1950s -- a decision which essentially legalized
private nudist camps in Michigan. (State police invaded a private nudist
camp near Battle Creek and arrested everyone, mainly on the notion that
minors were present; the state supreme court threw out the convictions.)
Mark Foley is a fascinating case himself: a conservative Republican
politician who has always been widely known in Florida political circles
to be a gay man. He openly attends events with his male partner, and is a
regular at gay bars and nightclubs in Florida and in Washington. However,
only recently has this been mentioned in the press. Foley, who is a
candidate for a U.S. Senate seat next year, has reacted angrily to what he
sees as an infringement on his privacy.
But how much privacy can a US Senate candidate in a large state really
expect, over a personal issue he has never bothered to conceal before?
The debate rages on in both the straight and gay media.
Funny time for him to blast the nudists.
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bru
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response 7 of 60:
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Jun 25 08:51 UTC 2003 |
It allows him to show himself as a defender of children by discriminating
against a small minority. It distances himself from one of the more severe
beliefs people have about gay men; That they are abusers of young men.
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jep
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response 8 of 60:
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Jun 25 12:37 UTC 2003 |
My home runs like Rane's, I guess. We're usually dressed but don't
make anything of it if we're not, in private.
I'd have been terrified at the idea of going to a nudist camp for
kids, myself, when I was 11-18. And of course, excited.
As a parent, I wouldn't pick such a place to send my son. If he
really, really wanted to go, I'd probably consider letting him, but it
seems pretty far-fetched. I don't expect he'll want to. He doesn't
seem the type.
re resp:6: Can't gay men go on moral crusades, too? Maybe it'll
distract the press a little from his homosexuality. Probably not, and
probably it won't have any effect; this seems like an awfully minor
issue. He needs to catch Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein raising
money for his opponent by selling drugs to 5th graders. I bet there
are a lot of nudist camps in Florida and they aren't a very big
political topic.
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jmsaul
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response 9 of 60:
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Jun 25 13:58 UTC 2003 |
Re #8, 3rd para: As I said, the kids going to this are already nudists, who
have been raised in nudist families.
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gull
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response 10 of 60:
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Jun 25 14:30 UTC 2003 |
Re #8: Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are love partners. I saw it
in the Enquirer. ;)
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orinoco
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response 11 of 60:
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Jun 25 14:41 UTC 2003 |
Of course, it's also possible that Mark Foley approves of homosexuality and
disapproves of public nudity around children. There's no real contradiction
there.
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tod
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response 12 of 60:
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Jun 25 16:28 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 13 of 60:
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Jun 25 16:31 UTC 2003 |
You don't have to be out of this country for it to be legit. It's legit on
private property right here in the US.
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tod
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response 14 of 60:
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Jun 25 16:37 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 15 of 60:
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Jun 25 16:53 UTC 2003 |
There are also some public nude recreation areas, but I don't know their
policy on children.
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tod
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response 16 of 60:
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Jun 25 16:55 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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jmsaul
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response 17 of 60:
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Jun 25 17:00 UTC 2003 |
A lot of them are, but not all.
By the way, I don't think that the existence of pedophiles is a justification
for preventing kids from going nude any more than the existence of
conventional hetero rapists would be for preventing women from going nude.
That's the same species of argument Moslem governments give for legislating
hijab (or worse): since there are bad people out there who might attack women
if they see their faces, the answer is to cover women's faces. I do agree
that you have to be careful, supervise, and watch out for the bastards.
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flem
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response 18 of 60:
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Jun 25 17:08 UTC 2003 |
Bah. Yet another "Protect the children! Vote for me!" campaign.
The number of people in this country who push their own agenda by claiming
that it's for the good of the children is just disgusting. What's even more
disgusting is that it works, as often as not.
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scg
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response 19 of 60:
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Jun 25 17:52 UTC 2003 |
Nudity seems to be at least tolerated on the more secluded California (or at
least Bay Area) beaches, with some of them drawing huge crowds of naked
people. There's at least one state-run public beach just South of San
Francisco that's officially clothing optional. I'm not aware of any
restrictions on children at any of those.
All the same, I found the comments by the camp spokesperson in this article
a bit creepy for some reason. It seems to me there's a big difference between
taking off your clothes because you feel like it and you're around a group
of people who don't object, versus the formality this group seems to be
putting around it.
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oval
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response 20 of 60:
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Jun 25 17:52 UTC 2003 |
we live in a country who's president doesn't even support sex ed for kids,
claiming that abstinence is the only way to keep them safe.
inserting a kids nudist camp is a risky idea, if only because the US is such
a prudish culture.
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oval
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response 21 of 60:
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Jun 25 17:54 UTC 2003 |
19 slipped. i agree it's a bit creepy - in our culture there seem to be a lot
of sexually repressed perves. look at the church.
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tod
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response 22 of 60:
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Jun 25 17:56 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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oval
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response 23 of 60:
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Jun 25 19:13 UTC 2003 |
dunno what amber alert is man..
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richard
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response 24 of 60:
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Jun 25 21:35 UTC 2003 |
They have a public nude beach in San Diego, I've been there before
(clothed though) It is right near UC-San Diego, you have to climb down
a steep cliff to get to it, which is I guess why it is allowed
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