Eating cheaply as a vegetarian/vegan

Jun 16 19:54 UTC 2007

This item is for discussing Colleen's no-reply item on eating a meat diet on
a budget.

response 2 of 52:

Jun 16 20:30 UTC 2007

Protein requirement according to WHO - .45 g protein per kg body mass. 

US and UK recommend .8 g protein per kg, still not difficult to obtain on a
vegetarian diet.  Another 15 g is just over 1 cup of beans.

Assuming 50 kg (110 lb), 22.5 g protein.

Protein contents of grains
brown rice - 1 cup - 232 calories - 5 g (similar for other grains)
oatmeal   - 1 cup - 145 calories - 6 g
bread (whole wheat) - 2 slices - 130 calories - 4.3 g
popcorn - 5 cups air popped - 150 calories - 5 g

Beans:
blackeyed peas 1 cup 190 calories 12.8 g protein - 2 cups of beans alone would
give you your daily protein requirement but not nearly enough calories.
kidney beans 1 cup 230 cal 14.5 g protein

Soybeans 1 cup cooked - 235 calories - 19.8 g protein - 12 cal/gram.
Tofu 120 g piece 86 cal 9.5 g protein - 9 cal/gram.
40 g protein = 4 pieces of tofu (about a pound).

peanut butter - 1 tbsp - 95 calories - 4.6 g

sunflower seeds - 1/4 cup - 205 cal/8.2 g protein - 34 cal/g

Potato  - 1 small boiled  120 calories 2.5 g protein.- 48 cal/gm
Large baked with skin 4.9 g protein

Spinach 1 cup cooked 41 cal 5.3 g protein

Mushrooms 1/2 cup cooked 21 cal 1.7 g protein - 12 cal/gram

Bok choi 1 cup 20 calories 2.6 g protein - 8 cal/gram protein
Broccolli - 1 spear 42 cal 4.5 g protein - 9 cal/gram protein

Onion - 1 cup raw 54 cal/1.9 g protein  - 28 cal/gm

Fish:
Tuna - 3 oz - 175 calories - 24 g protein - 7 calories per gram protein.  

Assuming 1500 calories/day needed for active lifestyle, and as much as 40 
g/protein, you would need to average 38 calories per gram of protein for 
an exact match of caloric and protein needs.   That would be difficult to 
do on a healthy diet - you would need to add a lot of sugar and fat.

Fried apple pie - 255 calories 2.2 g protein - 115 cal/g protein.
Corn chips - 1 -  155 cal/2 g protein - 77 cal/g protein
Cookie - 235 cal/2 g - 117 g/cal protein
Mayonnaise -  1 tbsp - 100/.2 - 500 cal/g
Granola (homemade) - 1 cup 595 cal/2.2 g protein - 270 cal/g
        (granola is full of oil and sugar)

People who eat a lot of junk would need to add meat to their diet to get 
enough protein without overdoing the calories.

If you eat whole foods, it would be nearly impossible not to get 25 g
protein in a 1500 calorie diet.

If you ate just potatoes, 1500 calories of potatoes provides 31 gm protein 
(50% more than the WHO requirement).  Just brown rice - 32 gm protein.  
Just beans - 100 gm (4 times the WHO requirement).  Colleen claims you 
cannot get enough protein from beans relative to the calories.

She also claims B12 pills cost more than meat.  I just found them $8/100 
(or about 12 cents/pill) online but Kroger is cheaper.  Nutritional yeast 
tastes better and has B12.

response 4 of 52:

Jun 19 14:11 UTC 2007

Colleen claims to need .7 g protein per pound body weight.  What I read is 
that the World Health Organization calls for .45 g / kg and the US and UK 
for .8 g/kg.  Colleen claims .7 g/lb.  One kg = 2.2 lb.  Assuming Colleen 
misread kg as lb, divide her 63-76 g protein per day by 2.2 to get 29-35 g 
protein per day.  The US RDAs are higher than most people need because 
they include more of the bell curve (people with unusually high 
requirements).  WHO requirements would be 22.5.  5-7 cups of grain would 
do it if you are not avoiding carbohydrates, in less than 1200 calories.

Potatoes have their protein mainly just under the skin.  Therefore a baked 
potato has more protein than a PEELED boiled one.  We microwave or 
pressure cook them in the skins, dip in cold water, and slip off the 
skins.

You can get enough B12 (100% of daily requirement) from multivitamins, 
which are really cheap.  The B12 pills are much higher doses, for people 
who don't absorb well, such as my friend who had part of her stomach 
removed due to cancer.

Colleen, what medical condition requires limiting carbohydrates to 100 
g/day?  Are you allowed more than this if you eat whole grains, which are 
digested more slowly?

I keep my bulk foods in 5 gal jugs on the stairway to the basement in my 
600 sq ft apartment, but there is plenty of room for food storage in other 
places such as under the bed.  50 lb fits in about 2 jugs.  

response 6 of 52:

Jun 19 15:06 UTC 2007

You can buy just B vitamin pills too.  

response 8 of 52:

Jun 19 16:03 UTC 2007

I didn't misread anything, Sindi.  That is the formula my doctor said to use.
It is pounds, not kilograms of body weight.

response 12 of 52:

Jun 19 22:20 UTC 2007

Yes, I do know.  YMMV. No, it is not possible.  

response 14 of 52:

Jun 20 00:30 UTC 2007

Oh man. I once had a roommate who was a raw-foods vegan. He often had 
conflicts with the rest of us in the house about cooking meat in the 
kitchen. He swore that the 'meat fumes' were making him sick. So we all 
decided that the rule was going to be, 'no cooking meat when [roommate] 
was home'  We stuck to that rule too but we started a 'meat journal' 
around that time where we took photographs of the cooking meat and 
described the cooking of the meat and the subsequent eating of the 
meat. When we filled the pages, we presented it to our other roommate. 

response 16 of 52:

Jun 21 03:09 UTC 2007

Vegetarian Times,  Jan, 2005  by Katherine Tallmadge
Ask the nutritionist: about getting enough protein

Q:

As a fairly new vegetarian, I'm not sure I'm getting enough protein. Is
there a formula to figure out how much I need, and is age ever a factor?

A:

Protein is the major component of all of your body's cells, and you're
right, it's important to make sure you're getting enough. Recent
research indicates that we may need more than previously thought. The
recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for all adults is 0.37 grams of
protein per pound of body weight, or about 15 percent of your daily
calories.

But you probably need more if you exercise, if you're dieting and as you
age. One dramatic study of 855 people found that those who ate just the
RDA of protein had alarming bone losses compared to those who ate more
than the RDA. Those who ate the least protein lost the most bone mass--4
percent in four years. People who ate the most protein (about 20 percent
of calories) had the smallest losses--less than 1.5 percent in four
years, reported the Journal of Bone and Mineral Research in 2000.
Although the study was done on older men and women, the results may be
important for all adults. "When you're young, you need protein to build
bone. After age 30, you need it to keep bone from being lost," says
Kathleen Tucker, associate professor of Nutritional Epidemiology at
Tufts University. "Keeping bones strong is a life-long effort."

Dieters, take note: New research has found that a protein-dense diet may
be essential for weight loss. It helps maximize fat loss while
minimizing muscle loss. That's important because "losing muscle slows
your resting metabolic rate--the speed at which your body burns
calories. That makes it harder to maintain a healthy weight and lose
fat," says William Evans, director of the Nutrition, Metabolism, and
Exercise Laboratory at the Donald W Reynolds Center on Aging at the
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences.

Many of us don't get the RDA for protein. Roughly 25 percent of adults
over age 20, and 40 percent of those age 70 and up, fall below it,
according to United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) statistics,
let alone eat enough to protect bones or muscle. And thin women, dieting
women and elderly women--who are especially vulnerable to the ravages of
bone and muscle loss--are notoriously low on protein. "Losing muscle
causes older people to become weak and frail," says Evans.

"It seems pretty clear that older adults may need more protein," agrees
dietitian Reed Mangels, nutrition advisor to the Vegetarian Resource
Group and co-author of The Dietitian's Guide to Vegetarian Diets. 

Based on the new findings, I now recommend that moderately active people
and older adults increase their protein to about 20 percent of their
calories, or 0.45-0.54 grams per pound of ideal body weight. If you're
an athlete or body builder, you may need even more.

response 18 of 52:

Jun 21 04:21 UTC 2007

The hidden response is an abstract of an article in a peer-reviewed
journal about increased protein needs in the elderly (subjects were 55 -
70 years old) published in 2001.

It includes an additional list of 16 articles on that subject published
since then, some of which are as recent as May and June of 2007.

The term "sarcopenia" is the medical term for loss of muscle mass and
strength, a problem similar to osteoporosis, loss of bone mass.  

About a third of muscle mass is lost in old age. This loss of mass
reduces the performance of muscles. Due to the increasing number of
elderly people, sarcopenia is an increasing health issue in the
developed world.

response 20 of 52:

Jun 21 14:11 UTC 2007

Your study showed that people who ate 20% of their calories as protein had
no bone loss (or minimal bone loss), so why does your doctor recommend almost
twice that?  You can get your protein balance measured (by testing what comes
out in the urine and feces) to determine your actual needs.

The RDA is supposed to be adequate for 97.5% of the population - .83 g/kg.
The median requirement is .65 g/kg.

response 22 of 52:

Jun 21 14:31 UTC 2007

Sindi, Doctors, like everyone else, have opinions. Colleen's doctor 
evidently has a different opinion about protein intake than you do but 
Colleen seems pretty happy with her doctor's recommendations. My 
opinion is that you are both right. It probably wouldnt hurt an adult 
to eat the amount of protein you think is correct. But it also probably 
wont hurt a person to eat an amount of protein Colleen's doctor thinks 
is correct.