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Grex > Agora46 > #138: Weapons of Mass Destruction -- The Theatrical Release | |
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Weapons of Mass Destruction -- The Theatrical Release
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Aug 1 04:06 UTC 2003 |
I was just listening to the radio talk about elections and Iraq and WMD,
and suddenly I realized how Karl Rove plans to win the 2004 presidential
election for his protege, GW Bush.
After an extended period of apparently failing to discover all those WMDs
Bush assured us were really there, his poll number really don't seem to
have suffered very much. Taking into account this fact, combined with
the long campaign season we're soon going to enter, it seems to me that
the most effective way for Bush to counter strong Democratic claims of
failures in Iraq -- especially claims of the absolute fallacy of Iraqi
WMD which some Dems seem wont to make -- would be to allow those claims
to build up momentum to the point at which they form a significantly
large part of the Democratic campain rhetoric, and then, suddenly, to
"find" the claimed proof of WMD just when the timing will have the
greatest effect in disarming that rhetoric.
In other words, if any hard evidence of WMD is found between now and the
optimal time close to the election, so long as the poll numbers don't
drop too low, it would be a brilliant stroke of political mastery to keep
it under wraps until it is most damaging to the Democratic presidential
campaign of whomever wins the primary.
I'm sure that if WMD turn up in Iraq within a month or two of the
election next year, pundits will be raging, left and right. On the
right, that it was there all along and the windbag Dems were just too
dumb to know it, and on the left, that the whole thing was orchestrated
for maximum electoral impact.
If it happens, remember: You heard it here first!
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| 49 responses total. |
jaklumen
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response 1 of 49:
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Aug 1 07:18 UTC 2003 |
I dunno. Part of me wants to see a Dem get a fighting chance in the
race in 2004. I don't particularly want to see GW get re-elected.
Iraq and WMD is old news to me.
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jor
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response 2 of 49:
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Aug 1 07:19 UTC 2003 |
Considering how easy it would be to fabricate
or manufacture some evidence of wmd, this would
explain why that hasn't happened already.
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jmsaul
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response 3 of 49:
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Aug 1 12:43 UTC 2003 |
Sure would. Hopefully the Democratic candidates will figure it out too.
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spectrum
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response 4 of 49:
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Aug 1 13:03 UTC 2003 |
I'm sick of liberal whining about WMD. So is the rest of America. Only
far-left liberals with thier obsessive agenda really talk about it.
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bru
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response 5 of 49:
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Aug 1 13:32 UTC 2003 |
there is no way to hide the introduction of WMD from the US into Iraq. Do
you know how many people would have to be involved, and you think everyone
of them wants to rig an election?
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gelinas
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response 6 of 49:
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Aug 1 13:41 UTC 2003 |
(People knew about the Iran-Contra arms sales, too, but they didn't talk
about it. It's -easy- to keep a secret; just classify it.)
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other
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response 7 of 49:
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Aug 1 13:56 UTC 2003 |
I wasn't even suggesting that the evidence would be fabricated, though I
wouldn't rule it out. Merely that its "discovery" would be timed for
political effect.
Given the administration's established pattern of managing events, this
isn't even a logical stretch.
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janc
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response 8 of 49:
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Aug 1 14:23 UTC 2003 |
Last think I heard GW say on this was that he expected that evidence would
be forthcoming for what he knew all along: "Iraq had a weapons program."
Um, hello, we didn't go to war because Iraq had a weapons program. Of course
Iraq had a weapons program. Everyone has a weapons program. The claim made
was that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US. That's going to be a wee bit
harder to prove.
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jor
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response 9 of 49:
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Aug 1 15:23 UTC 2003 |
May I retract "fabricate or manufacture",
because it would be easier to have simply claimed
we found materials, labs, documentation, and weapons
all over the place. Why did we not do so?
To manufacture and fabricate a managable
controversy?
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jep
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response 10 of 49:
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Aug 1 15:41 UTC 2003 |
If the US was going to plant evidence of WMD, the time to do it would
have been right as we were entering Baghdad. There was a lot of
confusion going on then, and the military had pretty tight and
unsupervised control of a lot of Iraq.
I don't think it'd be so easy now.
I don't think the president is withholding evidence of WMD. His
credibility has taken big hits in recent weeks. He needs the
announcement of a discovery *now*, which is why we've had announcements
over the last couple of days that a discovery is imminent.
If there isn't a discovery of some very significant WMD (some nuclear
weapons, or a big stockpile of chemical and/or biological weapons),
then the president is in a lot of trouble for the 2004 election. This
isn't swapping some arms for hostages, or drugs for arms, or whatever.
That's an "oops", comparatively. If the president invaded another
country on an incorrect basis, it's a big deal, and I think people will
treat it as a big deal.
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rcurl
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response 11 of 49:
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Aug 1 16:33 UTC 2003 |
Re #4: sure - belittle Bush's lies because they indict your leader. We
hear a lot of those attempts to divert public attention from the lies and
deceit.
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klg
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response 12 of 49:
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Aug 1 16:38 UTC 2003 |
QED
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tod
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response 13 of 49:
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Aug 1 18:06 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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sj2
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response 14 of 49:
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Aug 1 20:30 UTC 2003 |
This response has been erased.
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sj2
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response 15 of 49:
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Aug 1 20:31 UTC 2003 |
I don't think Iraq is going to weigh big on the voters' minds.
Domestic issues would matter more. Iraq issue's impact on presidency is
just media hype more like the SCO vs Linux thing.
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russ
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response 16 of 49:
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Aug 2 01:29 UTC 2003 |
Re #5: Are you kidding, Bruce? It would be *trivial* to introduce
WMD into Iraq along with the other military and relief supplies going
there. Do you think our spooks have no idea how to *smuggle* things?
Do you really think that more than a few people would have to know
what was in the packages?
That said, making the evidence convincing would be a whole lot harder.
Laboratories can pick out very fine differences between products, and
US-manufactured VX can probably be identified as such. An Iraqi weapon
would come with manufacturing and storage facilities somewhere; lack
of those would be very suspicious. It would take more than just one
smuggled weapon or batch of agent to convincingly frame Iraq.
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slestak
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response 17 of 49:
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Aug 2 19:45 UTC 2003 |
Unfortunately, whether or not any evidence for a weapons program in Iraq is
truly discovered or fabricated, "real news" either way is outside of the
acceptable framework for corporate news media reporting. The US media is
incapable of telling the public the truth about anything other than fashion
or food. (Well, maybe not even fashion or food on second thought.) Both
Liberal as well as Conservative seats of power manipulate the media on a daily
basis. The White House blames the CIA for false information, the CIA accepts
responsibility---->blame goes back to the White House<----->the CIA is
essentially a part of the White House. Fingers point in a circle to defer
responsibility as long as possible. George HW Bush has had both direct as well
as indirect influence whithin the CIA since the early 1970's. Since leaving
as director of the CIA in 1977 his level of "plausible deniability" has
allowed him to conduct personal business using CIA resources at will. Serving
as VP and then President follows suit. He's a business man, not a crusader
for freedom. His boys are just pawns in the global crap game he's been playing
since he left college. Based upon his actions thusfar, he appears to operate
beyond any law anywhere and his sons have been taught to work the same way.
Basic human nature. The illusion of control fuels the illusion of control.
Fair and honest US presidential elections are a myth.
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sj2
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response 18 of 49:
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Aug 2 20:34 UTC 2003 |
I wouldn't goto the extent of saying that elections in any of the large
democracies are rigged but the problem is lack of choice. Politicians
nowhere as good ennough to be elected. And all care about only money
for themselves.
Its surprising to see that people in the US can't see through GWB's
designs despite the large amount of evidence out there.
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slestak
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response 19 of 49:
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Aug 2 22:55 UTC 2003 |
I agree that elections are not necessarily rigged. I do believe that choice
is effectively eliminated by misinformation and our institutionalized
two-party system. Although, the lack of clear investigation and follow up on
the indiscrepancies during the Florida polls during our last presidential
election are troubling. Our standards have been lowered even further in
regards to legal, fair elections. The fact that Jeb Bush runs Florida is an
odd coincidence in regards to several current events.
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other
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response 20 of 49:
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Aug 2 23:00 UTC 2003 |
It's not that most people here *can't* see, it's merely that they choose
not to see. People tend to discount any "evidence" which comes from a
source they don't already accept as legitimate, and our means of
information distribution have proven themselves so flawed, so repeatedly,
that now people are just believing whatever sources they want to unless
they're motivated enough to seek out legitimate unbiased information
(which is getting harder and harder to do).
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jep
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response 21 of 49:
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Aug 3 02:47 UTC 2003 |
A lot of people can "see through" George Bush. They can "see through"
his designs not to make the political choices they favor, and in
support of their positions and opposition to Bush, they can "see" he's
doing really awful things.
They can "see" all of this, regardless of any decisions or choices he
actually makes.
Pretty much everyone who can't "see through" Bush could "see through"
Clinton when he was the president. Those people could have "seen
through" Al Gore, had he won the last election. It goes both ways, of
course.
Our vision is considerably influenced by who we voted for and who it
is we are "seeing through". We believe what we want to believe for
the most part. We've all got marvelous eyesight for seeing through
anyone we don't want to believe.
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twenex
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response 22 of 49:
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Aug 3 13:28 UTC 2003 |
Re 4: So you're sick of bleeding heart liberals, eh? I'll take that as a
compliment. We must be doing *something* right.
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janc
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response 23 of 49:
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Aug 3 16:11 UTC 2003 |
I agree with JEP to the extent that I don't think that Bush's supporters
misunderstand him. What I view as poison injected into the American
bloodstream, they view as a dose of much needed medicine. It's a values
issue, not a facts issue, for the most part.
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