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jaklumen
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The new FUNK item
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Jan 8 04:49 UTC 2002 |
Some of you may remember the funk item from the previous music cf.
It seemed to be the consensus that funk is dead, although I tend to
doubt that-- I think funk just morphed into something else.
I'm sure that can be debated, but I do think it's notable that rap
music has been strongly shaped by the particular genre. For example,
Wil Smith has listed funk music as a strong influence, and George
Clinton has admitted publicly that a lot of his royalties in recent
years have come from rap artists sampling his material. Warren G's "G
Funk Era" was just dripping with a particular funk style. Ludacris
uses a lot of funk, too, and "I've Got Hos in Different Area Codes"
was a strong example.
If rap is said to have grown from urban poetry, then, is it possible
that it shares a common root with funk? Could be a stretch, but the
fact that rap seems to use funk all the time seems like there is some
connection and continuity.
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| 26 responses total. |
gelinas
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response 1 of 26:
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Jan 8 05:02 UTC 2002 |
I remember where I first heard of rap: In a music column in "Omni" magazine,
during either its (the magazine's) first or second year. That is, in 1978.
At the same time, I was hearing "Bootsie's Rubber Band" nigh on every morning.
(The squadbay was divided into two-man cubes, but the dividers were only about
six feet tall. What one person listened to, we all listened to.) So I'd say
it obvious that they share roots.
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happyboy
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response 2 of 26:
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Jan 8 14:27 UTC 2002 |
george clinton is a cosmetologist...right?
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flem
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response 3 of 26:
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Jan 9 00:59 UTC 2002 |
Funk will never die! :)
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scott
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response 4 of 26:
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Jan 9 02:42 UTC 2002 |
My understanding of rapping is that it came from the Jamaican "toasting"
practiced by dub/dancehall MCs. The American adaption would of course be
based on funk, that being the state of dancable black music in the 70's other
than disco.
George Clinton, being the smart guy that he is, figured out the sampling stuff
quite early on and set himself and his music catalog (apparently he redid some
of his own classics to gain ownership of publishing rights somehow) for
easy licensing and clearance. When people wanted to sample his stuff, they
could do it without having to hire a bunch of lawyers and fight over it. As
a result Clinton got paid and more exposure via samples in rap tunes.
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cyklone
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response 5 of 26:
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Jan 9 03:29 UTC 2002 |
I think the Lost Poets and Gil Scott Heron may have a claims to be rap roots
as well.
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gelinas
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response 6 of 26:
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Jan 9 05:23 UTC 2002 |
I'm watching "Saturday Night Fever" on TNT; some of Travolta's moves show up
not much later in break dancing. So it would seem there is no bright line
between disco and breaking.
I mentioned listening to Parliament. Thinking back on what I was hearing,
very little of it was 'song'; most of it was talking to the audience over
the music, setting a scene. So I'm not convinced that there was a bright
line between "funk" and "rap", either.
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jaklumen
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response 7 of 26:
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Jan 9 09:28 UTC 2002 |
Actually, if I had been cognizant enough to include the whole of hip-
hop as I had intended, and not just rap, the parallels might have been
even clearer, as rap is just a part of that larger genre.
Funk and hip-hop both seem to be an attitude and an expression of much
of the same culture. They focus on a lot of the elements of urban
society, and so thus my thoughts.
I would be interested, however, to learn more about how rap evolved
from toasting, and how it came to be in America. Where would all the
roots be? Those that later grew techno, from what I remember
discussed here, came largely from Detroit. Of course, I think quite a
bit came from the East Coast, i.e., New York, from those such as the
Sugarhill Gang, Grandmaster Flash, and a bit later, Run DMC.
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scott
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response 8 of 26:
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Jan 9 13:30 UTC 2002 |
Hmm... "Africaa Bambataa" [spelled weird like that, I forget exactly how]
is supposed to have been a key link in rapping and especially turntable stuff.
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cyklone
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response 9 of 26:
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Jan 9 13:30 UTC 2002 |
Re-read #5!
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jaklumen
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response 10 of 26:
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Jan 10 02:34 UTC 2002 |
resp:5 Not familiar with those artists; care to enlighten me?
Again, in the other item, we discussed the connections to disco: I
think, at least in part, that there was crossover, if you want to look
at disco and funk as separate, and that the former and latter were the
white and black sounds, respectively, at first. Therefore, "KC and
the Sunshine Band" could be counted as one of the first bands to start
crossing over the sounds successfully.
Just a hypothesis-- anyone have a different perspective?
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cyklone
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response 11 of 26:
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Jan 10 03:43 UTC 2002 |
Gil Scott Heron was probably best known for "The Revolution Will Not Be
Televised" in which he took jabs at society and white culture, delivering
his lyrics more as a speech than a song. It was something of an anthem
for the Black Pride movement (or at least was inspired by that movement).
IIRC, the Lost Poets were a NYC based group with a similar approach and
were around even earlier. I never heard any of their stuff, but I've
certainly read a lot of references to them in articles about rap history.
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happyboy
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response 12 of 26:
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Jan 10 16:23 UTC 2002 |
"...and whitey's on the moon..."
who wrote that?
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scott
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response 13 of 26:
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Jan 10 17:40 UTC 2002 |
Gil Scott Heron [hyphen?].
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cyklone
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response 14 of 26:
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Jan 10 18:17 UTC 2002 |
Yeah, there may be a hyphen in there somewhere ;)
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scott
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response 15 of 26:
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Jan 10 18:57 UTC 2002 |
Now that I'm home and can access my CD collection:
"Gil Scott-Heron".
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jaklumen
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response 16 of 26:
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Feb 8 04:42 UTC 2002 |
There was also another area that I was wondering about-- what's the
difference between funk and soul? More accurately, how did the sound
branch out? I am assuming soul is an earlier sound than funk, but I
find the connections elusive (without a ton of study time I can't make
right now; musicology can't pay the bills).
I am assuming soul descended from the family tree of jazz and rhythm
and blues (I am recalling an old Entertainment Weekly listing an
obituary of celebrities; one was a black.. musicologist, apparently,
judging from the flowchart/tree that was written on a blackboard
behind him).
I am also assuming that James Brown had a heavy hand in the evolving
sound, as he is associated with funk, and yet is called "The Godfather
of Soul."
Did fusion have an influence?
The interplay between funk and disco seems to clearer to me, somewhat,
if only that I can list that Kool and The Gang seems to be one group
that bridged the gap. Oddly enough, I wonder if they returned to the
cycle-- they eventually turned to a 'lite pop rock' twist on their
style that I think might have a little bit of influence in some of
contemporary soul.
Granted, these are wild extrapolations, and I will need to do some
heavy homework sometime deep in a music library.
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scott
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response 17 of 26:
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Feb 8 14:24 UTC 2002 |
Bootsy Collins (bass player for Parliament/Fundakelic), in an NPR interview
I heard, basically summed up the difference as where the accents fell. Soul
is basically on the 2 and 4 (although I've got some Marvin Gaye running
through my head that says 1 and 3), which ties in with the blues/jazz source.
Jame Brown put accents on somewhat odder beats, and usually at a significantly
higher tempo. P-Funk put an accent on every single quarter note, the
"everything on the one" sound. I think the big difference is that funk puts
more accents into a measure than soul.
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