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anderyn
Music and Emotion Mark Unseen   Sep 16 00:21 UTC 1997

Um. This may sound pretty dumb to those of you who are trained musicians
and/or are very conversant with classical music, but I'm curious about
something. You know how certain themes give certain emotions -- you know,
dum da dum dum being "scary" and like that -- how far back does that 
association of certain types of sounds and certain emotions go? I mean,
if I listened to medieval music, would it be there? Or Renaissance? Or
was it only after large-scale orchestral pieces began to be composed?
(I admit, I'm not sure exactly when that was -- 1600s? I know by the
1700s, for sure, but when?) 
Anyway, I thought it would be a good discussion item...
18 responses total.
mcnally
response 1 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 05:51 UTC 1997

  Actually I think it's a pretty good question, not dumb at all..
  I can think of evolutionary reasons why certain types of sounds
  might trigger certain reactions but for the most part I think our
  emotional associations with music are primarily learned..

  Anyone consider themselves knowledgable in this are who would
  like to comment?

lumen
response 2 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 07:36 UTC 1997

Eewwwww...now I have to scour my brain for what little knowledge I have on
music history.  I didn't take Composition and Form at Ricks five years ago,
so I will have to depend on the teens here that are better trained than I am.
Or perhaps Dave, Scott, or arabella (Leslie) will know.  (Leslie, where are
you when I need you?!?  You're the one with the degree-- I don't even have
a bachelor's yet!  Ken?)

Ok, I'll start with the basic of basic.  Consider the psalms of the ancient
king of Israel named David.  Although there is a variety of emotions expressed
there, I am positive that the musicians played 'answer' in a call-and-answer
style (where 'Selah' is presumed to be the command to strike up the band).
From this time until the invention of Gregorian chant, music was used
primarily for celebration.  Exceptions include the Native Americans, who sang
songs for mourning, and possibly the Eastern cultures.  Other than that, I
can't think of any other examples.

Gregorian chant signaled the start of written music.  This particular genre
is fairly neutral emotionally-- relatively calm and peaceful, yet alert--
setting an appropriate tone for the church.

Although the church had a strong role in the shaping of music at the time,
the Middle Ages and the Renaissance saw the advent of the bard.  Bards, as
secular musicians, were either troubadours of the king's court, or were
traveling entertainers-- the earliest folk musicians on record.  They juggled
and told stories as well as they did sing songs.  They sung about quite a
number of emotions-- any, but usually mixed with love-- tragedy, bravery,
wanderlust, longing (the Gypsies especially sang with longing for their
homelands), humor, etc.  Of course, I'm sure even the bards sung about piety
at times.

I also understand musicians worked to imitate sounds, so sound effects of
birds and nature were not uncommon at the time.

After Gregorian chant and the end of the Renaissance, the modern system of
music notation came into use, so major and minor scales were developed-- the
one sounding happy, and the other sad.  Religion still played a major role
in music.  For example, the three-note chord symbolized the Trinity.  However,
the interval with exactly six half-steps in it (correct me if I'm wrong?)--
known as the 'tritone'-- was called the devil's interval, and anyone caught
playing it got their hand (hands?) cut off.  My first theory teacher told us
we'd get an automatic F if we were caught playing it as well.  He also
discouraged chord digressions (opposite of progressions) since they have a
tendency to sound depressing as well.  He deducted double the points for a
V (dominant) to IV (sub-dominant) progression, which is, say, a G chord to
F chord progression in the key of C.  (This really does NOT sound good and
I doubt anyone uses it anyway.)

To understand how much religious passion played a part of the Baroque period,
one should consider Johann Sebastian Bach, and the theology of the early
Lutheran church.  From what I read, his composing and his belief dovetailed
each other-- in a composition, the right hand melody passages would be his
handiwork, while the left hand passages would be the grace and power of God.

From this time on out, as you have surmised, most of humankind's passions and
emotions were being expressed in music, and I cannot hope to explain them all
succinctly.  Certainly the organ, which had slowly been developed from a Roman
precessor existent in the late Empire, expressed these emotions with more
intensity.  And then there was Beethoven, the great classical/Romantic
composer, who had the stormy disposition of a Greek god, and who was inclined
to brood a lot.  The opening movement to his 5th Symphony and the first
movement of his "Moonlight Sonata" ar fire and ice-- intens, aggressive
expression in the former, and quiet, reflective pondering in the latter. 
There is no doubt Beethoven intended the "Moonlight Sonata" to be romantic
as well as Romantic-- it is said he wrote it to impress a woman.

I say no more.  Expound as you will.
albaugh
response 3 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 18:04 UTC 1997

If certain styles of music didn't evoke certain human responses, there'd be
a whole lot of movie score writers out of work!  ;-)
rcurl
response 4 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 19:51 UTC 1997

I would venture that emotion and music were connected prehistorically -
from the first time anyone beat out a rhythm on a lump of wood. Just the
difference between fast and slow rhythms evokes different memories and
thoughts. For that matter, it is prehuman! Bird songs act to create emotions
in birds; crickets chirp to create emotions. These emotions drive sexual
activities - and similar emotions from music also drive sexual activities
in humans. 
anderyn
response 5 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 20:19 UTC 1997

Erm. I guess what I was trying to ask was -- say you have an
Australian aborigine, or maybe a Mennonite/Amish person, who hasn't
been exposed to movie music, classical music, etc (as we all have
been via radio, teevee, etc.), and you sat them down in a room and
played the music from the shower scene in Psycho for them, what would
they feel? Would they "know" it was a scary scene? Ditto, say, the
Hallelujah Chorus or some other piece of joyous classical music..
How much of what we :know: about music and its emotional effects
are leaerned and how much are hard-wired in?  How did this language 
of emotion get started? Is it universal? 
md
response 6 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 16 20:44 UTC 1997

Personal opinion: The emotional content of music is local, not
universal.  It's culturally conditioned. 

I remember back in my hippie phase listening to a recording of
Indian ragas by Ravi Shankar.  In the liner notes, Shankar described
the ragas as expressing sadness, longing, joy, and so on, but to
my ears they were all interchangeable.  On the other hand, I once
read a story about an Indian musician attending his first concert
of European music.  When asked after the concert how he liked
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, he joked that it sounded a lot
more pastoral to him before that guy with the stick came out
and started waving it around.  (I.e., while the orchestra was
still tuning up.) 

After Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, all music expressive of the
out-of-doors had to have the same elements.  The droning chords
underpinning the melody that characterize Beethoven's 6th actually
sounded like bagpipes to his listeners, which meant "rustic" to
them.  That sound means nothing of the sort to us, but it does sound
"pastoral," because...because that's what out-of-doors music
sounds like, ever since Beethoven.  That's how things get started.
Listen to pre-1800 music all you like and you won't hear any of
the sounds that affect us so deeply and that seem so eternal and
universal.  You'll hear lots of lovely things, but you won't here
Wagner's woods, or Tchaikovsky's yearning, or Mahler's angst.
senna
response 7 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 03:57 UTC 1997

Well, the ear is tuned instinctively to recognize certain tones and patterns,
I'd imagine for the purpose of communication, originally.  It affects the way
we here music to some extent.
rcurl
response 8 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 04:16 UTC 1997

"...tuned instinctively..."?? You mean, hard wired? What evidence do you
have for that (apart from the audible frequency range), given the variety
of *languages* and language tones and patterns? What would identify as a
strictly common tone or pattern for all languages? 

I don't know of any studies of it, but I would not be surprised if there
is at least a little relation between musical styles and languages. 
lumen
response 9 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 17 05:58 UTC 1997

Interesting. I wouldn't doubt that music has a strong cultural component.
senna
response 10 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 18 02:07 UTC 1997

Babies automatically react to certain tones from their parents.  Humans have
certain tones of voice that are universal--you can tell that a person is very
angry, in any language, by the way they talk.  I'm not sure how much it
translates to music, but there are things that arent' entirely learned.
lumen
response 11 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 19 03:16 UTC 1997

Not necessarily, Steve-- I'd say you can tell a person is angry from a
combination of things, but mainly facial expression.  My mother used to say
Asians sounded angry a lot speaking their languages-- but then they don't
express much emotion.
senna
response 12 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 19 20:50 UTC 1997

Also, the ears are tuned to hear harmonic sounds and music and such... it's
not learned necessarily. 
kundans
response 13 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 20 08:25 UTC 1997

Could anyone please tell me why  Enigma seems to be coming straight into the
heart? Are the harmonics identifiable straightaway? Or ???
tpryan
response 14 of 18: Mark Unseen   Sep 22 21:55 UTC 1997

        What we heard as a wonderful Thrid World Rythm, interesting
because it is new, just me be a declaration of war and parade of
insults from one side to another.  So, if you first to greet the
alien out of the flying saucer, be carefull of what you sing.
bookworm
response 15 of 18: Mark Unseen   Mar 12 06:26 UTC 1999

As I said in my intro over in item: #2, you can usually tell what kind 
of mood I'm in based on what I'm singing.  
tpryan
response 16 of 18: Mark Unseen   Mar 21 15:19 UTC 1999

        Gee, no one could respond to my #14 for a year and a half?
lumen
response 17 of 18: Mark Unseen   Mar 31 05:06 UTC 1999

Could you rephrase what you just said?  I mean, what the hell were you 
trying to say?
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