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Grex > Femme > #53: Whatever happens to adolescent girls? | |
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headdoc
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Whatever happens to adolescent girls?
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Feb 7 13:22 UTC 1996 |
I am currently reading a book called "Reviving Ophelia"written by Mary Pipher,
Ph.D. The story of Ophelia, from Hamlet, shows the destructive forces that
affect young adolescent women. As a girl, Ophelia is happy and free, but when
she enters her adolescence she loses her true self. She falls in love with
Hamlet and lives only for his approval. She loses her inner direction, and
rather struggles to meet the demands of Hamlet and her father. Her value is
determined by their approval. When Hamlet spurns her, she kills herself.
The premise of the book is that there is a segment of the female, adolescent
population who are very uch like Ophelia. I see them at the High School in
which I work. The girls who, we are told, have been well adjusted, happy,
productive, with high aspirations. . they enter middle school years and ther
locus of control turns completely outward. Focus is on learning how to please
boys, fulfill physical stereotypes of pathological thinness, and goal
directedness disappears. Care to comment?
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| 74 responses total. |
md
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response 1 of 74:
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Feb 7 13:45 UTC 1996 |
Happens to boys, too. The majority of them, in fact, from
what I can observe.
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beeswing
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response 2 of 74:
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Feb 7 14:06 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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chelsea
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response 3 of 74:
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Feb 7 16:34 UTC 1996 |
Women, in general, embrace the roll of victim. It's always done
to us by them. We had no choice or complicity. We are what they
made us to be, poor us.
Men, in general, don't embrace the roll.
(I'll bet you a cup of coffee that the very next response will be
something along the lines of "society made us play the roll of
the victim". ;-)
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md
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response 4 of 74:
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Feb 7 20:21 UTC 1996 |
Society has made men play the role of the victim. We die younger,
get sick more often, commit suicide more often, go out and fight
stupid wars, you name it. Plus we have to wear the most uncomfortable
work clothes and do the most dangerous and exhausting jobs. We never
get to see our own children, the role of nurturer is snatched away
from us, and in return we're expected to carry our significant others
around on our shoulders, emotionally, financially and psychologically.
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chelsea
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response 5 of 74:
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Feb 7 20:43 UTC 1996 |
Try as you might, Michael, your whining can't hold a candle
to a woman's whine. Women have elevated the whine to an art form.
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otter
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response 6 of 74:
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Feb 8 01:57 UTC 1996 |
Pardon me, but seeing no smiling emoticons in #4, I assume he's serious, and
think he makes some valid points.
BTW, I am 35 years old and have *never* whined.
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beeswing
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response 7 of 74:
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Feb 8 07:59 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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md
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response 8 of 74:
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Feb 8 15:21 UTC 1996 |
Re #7: "The college degree I busted my ass for does not give me
the earning power that a man's high school diploma will." Is
that true? How does that work, exactly? A man with a high
school diploma and a woman with a college degree apply for the
same job and the man gets it and woman doesn't? That happens?
What job is it, exactly? Or, is it that a man with a high school
diploma and a woman with a college degree are working side by
side in the same job, and the man's salary is higher? Really?
What company do they work at, exactly?
Or do you mean that *on the average* roofing contractors with
high school diplomas make more money than social workers with
psych major college degrees? (Duh.)
And I *love* your statement that no one is actually taking the
"nurterer" role away from men, "it's just been more commonplace."
It's just been more commonplace! I love it! It's so...simple,
so...elegant. It had me staring into space with a dreamy smile
for a good ten minutes. Alas, if I say anything more specific
about it I'll spoil the irony. (Ironies, actually, if you count
the misspelling of "nurturer".)
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beeswing
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response 9 of 74:
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Feb 8 20:41 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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chelsea
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response 10 of 74:
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Feb 8 21:50 UTC 1996 |
(Mary waits in wild anticipation...)
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beeswing
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response 11 of 74:
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Feb 9 07:22 UTC 1996 |
And I am the reigning queen of typos. Sigh.
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remmers
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response 12 of 74:
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Feb 9 11:01 UTC 1996 |
(Re #10: Ditto...)
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aruba
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response 13 of 74:
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Feb 9 12:48 UTC 1996 |
I think Michael's point about your "role of nurturer" comment, beeswing, was
that it's not fair to bemoan the roles women are often maneuvered into without
recognizing that the same thing happens to men. I heard it said once that
even with all the changes that feminism has wrought, a woman is still judged
by her family and a man is still judged by his career. That's a little out
of date, and of course a generalization, but there's a lot of truth in it.
(At least what it says about men.) If you recognize that there are
sociological forces that influence women toward thinness and subservience,
you must also see that there are forces which push men toward being
workaholics and dominators. And as with women, there is shame for those who
don't meet the ideals. If your argument is that men are basically free
and women are basically enslaved, I'm not buying it.
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md
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response 14 of 74:
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Feb 9 16:11 UTC 1996 |
Re #9: I agree that in many fields the average pay for women is still
less than it is for men. What you said in #7, however, was: "THE
COLLEGE DEGREE I BUSTED MY ASS FOR DOES NOT GIVE ME THE EARNING POWER
THAT A MAN'S HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA WILL." (I'm putting it all in caps
so you'll pay attention.) I have never heard anyone say that WOMEN
WITH COLLEGE DEGREES earn less on the average than MEN WITH ONLY HIGH
SCHOOL DIPLOMAS, so I asked you for some specifics. (More caps there.
Same reason.) Well?
My point about the roofing contractor vs the social worker is that
most of the former are men and most of the latter are women. But if
you can say that no one is stopping me from being a house-husband,
then I can say that no one is stopping you from being a roofing
contractor. Which brings me once again to to your statement that no
one is actually taking the nurturer role away from men, "it's just
been more commonplace." Lots and lots of bad things have just been
more commonplace, beeswing, including everything you're opposed to as
a feminist. "It's just been more commonplace," is what a dull stupid
unthinking male chauvinist who just doesn't get it uses to explain why
women stay home and take care of the kids. Coming from a self-styled
feminist, it's *stunningly* ironic. When I said it had me staring
into space with a dreamy smile for a good ten minutes, I wasn't
joking.
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