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krj
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Geezer Rock
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Sep 6 16:44 UTC 2001 |
Salon recently ran a review of a new book "Rock 'Til You Drop,"
by John Strausbaugh.
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2001/08/22/rock/index.html
The book and review seem to argue that the classic rock bands should
get out of the way, out of the cultural radar; the central argument
seems to be that the bands are unsightly. "Hope I die before I get old"
has been, for the most part, a promise unfilled.
If you were looking for a sign of the aging of the rock world, you
could not have done better than listen to the Toledo classic rock
station with us on Monday, as we drove home through Ohio.
We caught one adverstisement for a varicose vein clinic, and another
for a heart disease clinic. Both were phrased as "You're not really
getting old, but you might want to have this stuff looked at."
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| 23 responses total. |
krj
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response 1 of 23:
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Sep 6 16:53 UTC 2001 |
Here's a more critical review of the book in Slate:
http://slate.msn.com/culturebox/entries/01-08-28_114363.asp
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dbratman
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response 2 of 23:
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Sep 17 21:45 UTC 2001 |
From the review: "Keith Richards has long complained that no one would
criticize the Stones' longevity if he and Jagger were black bluesmen
from Chicago."
That pretty much says it all. Nobody'd ever seen old rockers before,
and it makes them uncomfortable. If you don't like it, don't look at
it. I sure don't look at the Stones, but if anybody else is still
interested, go ahead.
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dbratman
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response 3 of 23:
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Feb 17 08:25 UTC 2003 |
This might be a place to mention that I just picked up a cheap
compilation called "80's Party". (Not quite a geezer era yet, but
getting there.) I actually listened to pop radio for a few years in
the early 80s, and in addition to a few songs I remember, I was hoping
this album might include some of that elusive category, songs I'd heard
and liked without having any idea what they were or who did them. No
luck on that last category, and no real winners for me among the songs
new to me either. And I find that, on first careful listen (i.e. my
first time hearing them on a home stereo instead of the radio in a
noisy car), songs like "Karma Chameleon" and "Walk Like an Egyptian"
don't really hold up. Of all the songs on this album, the one that has
generated the most pop-culture references I've seen is "Centerfold" by
the J. Geils Band. This is the first time I've heard that song in full
at all, and I'm amazed how lousy a song it actually is.
There is one song on this album I really liked at the time, and still
really like. Unfortunately I get the impression that anyone with
discernment is supposed to hate it with a passion, so I'm really out of
step here. That song is "We Built This City" by Starship. I like it
because it has an actual tune (a very rare commodity in modern pop
hits), the tension builds and ebbs interestingly, and it does
unexpected things with its fixed rhythm.
By the way, checking for the lyrics of this song online proves the
perils of doing so. After looking at several sites, I find that there
seem to be two text transcriptions of it floating around, one at least
of which is totally inept, but more common than the other one, which
may be mostly accurate. I'm pretty sure the second text is accurate in
saying that it's Marconi who plays the mamba, not the first text's "Ma
Coley". (I'd always thought it was "My Tony".)
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anderyn
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response 4 of 23:
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Feb 17 15:24 UTC 2003 |
I've ALWAYS heard "Marconi plays the mamba". I have a very old and ragged tape
recording off the raido of "We Built this City", and still listen to it,
though I have it on a couple of 80s compilations now.
I loved the 80s, it's when I first started seriously listening to pop music,
and I still enjoy lots of the songs even though I know, seriously, that
they're not very good.
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dbratman
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response 5 of 23:
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Feb 18 07:37 UTC 2003 |
I started listening to pop radio about 1980, but I stopped about 1985
because the hit songs stopped including anything I liked at all - even
passingly at the time. Trying to remember the kind of song that
irritated the heck out of me, the one that comes to mind was a tuneless
wonder called "Relax" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood. I was also
dismayed when Cyndi Lauper's "Time After Time", which I didn't like,
drove her "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun", which I did like, off the
market. I still hear "Time After Time" on occasion (in store musak,
etc.), but I haven't heard "Girls" in at least 15 years.
I understand that things got better in the 90s, but I never went back.
Of the famous bands since '85, I haven't the slightest idea what most
of them sound like.
Going through a tiny collection of singles I bought at the time, I find
two semi-tuneless songs I did like. One is "Bette Davis Eyes" by Kim
Carnes, whose musical content essentially consists of one constantly
repeated instrumental riff, but unlike most such songs this one
actually varies the riff. I think the aim was for this song to sound
rivetingly creepy. It succeeds.
And the other song is "One Night in Bangkok" (the Robey version). All
I remembered about this song was that at the time I'd thought it was
very very weird. Now I listen to it again and it comes back to me.
What I'd thought was weird about it is that it's an example of a genre
of music I had never heard in 1984, when it was new.
It's a rap song. Or, at least, I think it is. And if so, it's the
only rap song I've ever heard that I like.
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scott
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response 6 of 23:
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Feb 18 13:59 UTC 2003 |
That's funny; I liked "Time After Time" much better than "Girls Just...", and
still think "Relax" is one of the best productions (not best song, mind you)
of the 80's.
"One Night in Bangkok" was a weird story to begin with. It's actually from
a concept album for the music for a proposed musical "Chess" which took years
to actaully be produced. Somehow the album came out, though.
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anderyn
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response 7 of 23:
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Feb 18 15:22 UTC 2003 |
Part of what makes me like an 80s song is if the lyrics make sense (I *hate*
some of the songs who go from a she to a you to a she again in addressing
(supposedly) the same individual ... agk!), part of it is if I liked the video
(I admit it, some songs I adore just because I loved the videos, although I
didn't really have MTV ever in the 80s...), and part of it is if I like the
way the voices blend (all of Def Leppard gets me because I really really like
how the four of them sing together -- ah, harmony....).
I would not have classified "one Night in Bangkok" as a rap song, based on
the rap songs I've heard. (My son, alas ,went through a a rap music stage,
and still likes it -- to me, the main feature of rap is that the words and
music take a back seat to the "pushy" nature of the "rap" ie
word word word word word WORD
word word word WORD
etc.
It's not so much that you can hear what they're saying as they push the
emphasis at you, to me. (I can't figure out why anyone likes it, but then
I'm a middle aged white woman who likes folk music, so I doubt I'm the target
audience.))
I thougth that "Chess" finally did get produced somewhere? I have the
soundtrack album for it somewhere in my tapes.
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jaklumen
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response 8 of 23:
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Feb 19 07:32 UTC 2003 |
resp:7 yep, you're probably right. Rap music is pretty iconoclastic
at times and very image driven. Very much attitude and very street.
Tends to appeal to those who identify with that. I'd say hip-hop has
largely replaced the angry young man market that rock had or something
like that.
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dbratman
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response 9 of 23:
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Feb 19 19:36 UTC 2003 |
Defining rap by the "pushiness" and other aspects of the attitude is
rather like defining science fiction as pulp stories with spaceships
and bug-eyed monsters. Sure, it's characteristic of the genre, but
it's not the definition. In rap's case, the definition involves
rhythmic speaking over a semi-musical beat, and that describes "One
Night in Bangkok". It's not sprechstimme, it's not narration, it's not
any of the previously existing ways of talking with music: it's rap.
It's just not black ghetto rap or imitation thereof.
I'm not sure if lyrics that make sense are characteristic of 80s rock.
I've been listening to "We Built This City" several times over the last
few days, and I haven't any real idea what the heck they're talking
about. Besides, didn't Talking Heads flourish during the 80s? Now
there were some cryptic lyrics for you.
But I suppose encryption is relative. I have not had the honor of
hearing any of those "songs who go from a she to a you to a she again
in addressing (supposedly) the same individual."
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anderyn
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response 10 of 23:
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Feb 19 19:54 UTC 2003 |
I will see if I can find one to cite for you (I know there's one that REALLY
annoys me by Survivor, which I think is on their greatest hits album)...
Other than that, well... about rap... I've never understood the rhthmic part
because I can never HEAR the words -- I find the meanings of lyrics and the
way the words work together very important to my enjoyment of music, and rap
has never worked for me because it's all about the "push" to my ears, and not
about what's being said (at least in the stuff I've heard, which may or may
not be mainstream, although I suspect that it is, 'cause it's what was on the
radio in Detroit) -- again, if I could hear the words, I'd have a better time
understanding what the appeal is, but I can't. NEver have been able to parse
them out from the "push" of the rhythm and the overlying music.
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anderyn
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response 11 of 23:
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Feb 19 21:42 UTC 2003 |
And I quote the whole lyrics of "High on You" by Survivor:
There you stood, that'll teach ya
To look so good and feel so right
Let me tell you 'bout the girl I met last night
It's understood I had to reach ya
I let the wheel of fortune spin
I touched your hand before the crowd started crashin' in
Now I'm higher than a kite
I know I'm getting hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your touch in the middle of the street
And I, I can't stop thinkin' 'bout you, girl
I must be livin' in a fantasy world
I'm so high on you
Smart and coy, a little crazy
The kinda face that starts a fight
Let me tell you 'bout the girl I had last night
Piercin' eyes like a raven
You seemed to share my secret sin.
We were high before the night started kickin' in
Now I'm screamin' in the night
I know I'm getting hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your touch in the middle of the street
And I, I can't stop thinkin' 'bout you, girl
I must be livin' in a fantasy world
I've searched the whole world over
To find a heart so true
Such complete intoxication,
I'm high on you
There you stood, that'll teach ya
To look so good and feel so right
Let me tell you' bout the girl I met last night
Now I"m higher than a kite
I know I'm getting hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your love in the middle of the street
And I, I can't stop thinkin' 'bout you, girl
I must be living in a fantasy world
I've searched the whole world over
To find a love so true
Such complete intoxication
I'm high on you
I'm high on you
I'm high on you
So there you have it. He's talking to someone about the girl, then TO the
girl, and then about her again (I think!). I *really really* get annoyed by
this particular song's lyrics.
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krj
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response 12 of 23:
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Feb 22 22:31 UTC 2003 |
I meant to paste in this NY Times link earlier; it'll go into the
pay archive tonight. :/ Maybe somebody stuck it on Usenet or somewhere
else where Google might find it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/arts/16ROSE.html?pagewanted=print&positio
n=top
"Singing to the Grown-Ups, and Selling" by Jody Rosen
The essay argues, in effect, that we boomers have become our parents,
with our attitudes towards hip-hop recapitulating our parents'
attitudes towards rock.
The article charges that the aging boomers, who are rallying around
an idea of "authenticity," are mostly listening to pretty boring
music. Norah Jones is the artist most criticized in the piece.
The author doesn't say it in these words, but the argument is
essentially that we have recreated our version of the old boring
Easy Listening/Adult Contemporary music which our parents
listened to in their mature years, while all the artistic action
is happening in hip hop.
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