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jlamb
Grex goes to the movies - The Summer Movies Review Item Mark Unseen   Jun 22 02:57 UTC 2004

Grex Goes to the movies - the Summer Movies Review item
323 responses total.
jor
response 1 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 23 15:17 UTC 2004

        More horrible than any horror film!!

        I am shreiking in horror!

        Evidently there is a remake of
        Manchurian Candidate about to be
        released. I am so horrified,
        that I need to play a soothing
        game of solitaire.

        Starring Terrible Meryl Streep
        (screams in horror) as . .
        'Angela Lansbury'! (faints)

        Maybe Jon Voight will save it.
        Or maybe monkeys will fly out of his
        ears. With The Gulf War as a stunt double
        for the Korean War. From the dude who
        brought us Silence of the Cramps.

        Wait, IMDB has made some mistake,
        it's not filed under genre = horror.

mcnally
response 2 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 23 16:07 UTC 2004

 > With The Gulf War as a stunt double for the Korean War.

 "The Babylonian Candidate"?

 I agree, that doesn't sound promising..  "The Manchurian Candidate"
 was kind of marginal to begin with and the thing which redeemed it
 for me was its camp value.  Judging from past efforts to remake that
 sort of film, striking the right balance is a very difficult task.
richard
response 3 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 04:57 UTC 2004

FAHRENHEIT 9/11--  This is the incendiary new documentary from Oscar 
winning writer/director and Flint, Michigan resident Michael Moore.  
This movie is a scathing indictment of George W. Bush and his 
administration.  It starts with the 2000 election debacle and then 
shows 9/11/2001, with the planes hitting the World Trade Center.  As 
the first plane crashes into the WTC, we see unedited footage of what 
Bush was doing at that exact moment.  He was reading a children's book 
at a kindegarten class in Florida.  An aide comes in and whispers in 
his book, "we're under attack"  Bush doesn't do or say anything, just 
goes on nonchalanlantly reading his book.  Then seven minutes later, 
he's still reading his book, and the second plane hits, and still he 
does nothing.  

Moore goes into extensive detail about the relationship between the 
Bush family and the Saudis and the Bin Ladens.  We see George HW Bush 
(Bush the Sr.) in the weeks before the attacks, in Texas meeting with 
Bin Laden family members who were investors in Texas oil stocks.  We 
find out that when Bush released the records of his service (or lack 
thereof) in the Reserves in Alabama, the official documents released 
had some names marked through.  Of course Moore got hold of the 
unmarked documents, and we find out that they had marked through the 
name of the other person who was in the Reserves with Bush and got a 
medical leave at the same time.  A man who is an old friend of Bush and 
later became one of the Bin Laden's money men in the U.S.  The 
implication being made is that we attacked Iraq to divert attention 
from Afghanistan, because the Saudis and the Bin Ladens and the Taliban 
are all heavily invested in the U.S. and in the oil industry.  In fact, 
it is claimed that the Saudis have some $800 billion dollars invested 
in U.S. industries, meaning they basically own 1/7th of the U.S.  
Moore's argument seems to be that Bush and co. knew we were 
bloodthirsty after 9/11 and wanted to hang someone, but he wanted to 
spare Bin Laden and not expose the Saudi connections, so we went after 
Saddam Hussein instead.  

It goes on and on.  Moore absolutely roasts Bush.  Members of Congress 
aren't spared either.  Moore goes to Capital Hill and finds out from a 
Congressman that most legislators don't read the bills they vote on, 
because they don't have time.  Then he gets a full copy of the Patriot 
Act, and drives around the Capital in an ice cream truck, holding a 
megaphone, and reading it out loud.  

The most moving parts of the movie come when Moore goes back to Flint, 
Michigan and follows Marine recruiters as they walk around shopping 
mall parking lots trying to recruit kids, giving them a hard sell to 
join the service.  Then we get to meet a mother in Flint whose son was 
killed in Iraq, and she doesn't know why or for what good reason.  Her 
plight is compared to the plight of members of Congress.  Moore goes 
back to the Hill and finds that of all the members of Congress, only 
one has or had a child serving in Iraq.  Moore then chases different 
Congressman down in his man on the street style and demands to know if 
they'd send THEIR kids to Iraq.  We then see Bush, who also never 
served overseas, giving a speech to some of his fatcat donors, 
saying "you are my base"  The implication being that Bush represents 
the elite and the money, and that they are always going to be most 
concerned about maintaining their status and their money, and that in 
the end regular folk-- like this woman and her family in Flint-- are 
the ones paying the real costs.

That only scratches the surface of this film.  It is an amazing 
work.  "Fahrenheit 9/11" won the grand prize at the Cannes Film 
Festival, and when I saw it today, it got big applause at the end.  
Moore is a propogandist of the highest order, and I don't doubt that 
there are arguments for some of the appalling facts he puts forth.  But 
the cumulative effect of the movie is really REALLY powerful.  

I think every American should see Fahrenheit 9/11, regardless of one's 
political views.  It opens nationally on Friday.  (***** five stars out 
of five)
mcnally
response 4 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 06:57 UTC 2004

  re #3:  I'm pretty sure Michael Moore is a *former* Flint resident.
  I think he lives in NYC now.

  I won't deny that many of his antics are entertaining but he shouldn't
  be mistaken for a serious political commentator -- I'm uncomfortable
  enough with the notion that people consider his films documentaries.
  Occasionally he scores a good point, often one that nobody else in
  the media seems to be making, and is worth checking in on now and again
  for just this reason, but for the most part I think he's a master of
  cheap shots, duplicitous justapositions, and the "post hoc, ergo propter
  hoc" logical fallacy.  When it comes right down to it he's not any more
  interested in nuance, balance, or honest argument than Ann Coulter is,
  he's just starting from a more palatable political perspective.

  If you think I've painted an unfairly harsh portrait of Michael Moore,
  well, just keep in mind next time you're watching one of his films that
  the most dangerous arguments are the ones you *want* to believe.
richard
response 5 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 07:31 UTC 2004

Moore has a house in Flint and an apartment on the upper west side in nyc.
Splits his time.  He is maybe the most famous graduate of UM-Flynt too.
richard
response 6 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 07:40 UTC 2004

McNally wrote

[b]for the most part I think he's a master of
   cheap shots, duplicitous justapositions, and the "post hoc, ergo
propter
   hoc" logical fallacy. [/b]


Don't make such accusations unless you can back them up with specifics.
Its easy to say those things when you don't agree with his political
views, but unfair unless you can back it up.  At least Moore gives details
and specifics.  Did you see "Roger and Me"?  That was a powerful
documentary that has only resonated even better over time than it did when
it first came out.  "Bowling for Columbine" made a lot of good points too.
There is nothing wrong with a documentary filmmaker who wants to make a
statement, and push a particular point of view, in his work.  This is just
one point of view.  He is not making any pretense of being unbiased, and
he doesn't have to.  Reporters reading the news have to be unbiased.
Columnist and documentarians do not.  Moore's tactics aren't any worse
than what Robert Novak and Bill O'Reilly do in their columns.
slynne
response 7 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 14:06 UTC 2004

I havent ever heard anyone accuse Michael Moore of being fair or 
balanced. Even Michael Moore admits that he has an agenda with his 
films. Still, I like his sense of humor and I expect that I will like 
this film as much as I have liked his other ones. And hey, once in a 
while, he opens my eyes to something. Like that Marilyn Manson 
interview in Bowling for Columbine. Interesting that the creepy rock 
star with the terrible lyrics seemed to actually be a nice guy with a 
brain in his head. Well wht do you know! And what Marilyn Manson said 
about not talking to kids but listening to them has kind of stuck with 
me. *shrug* 

jor
response 8 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 15:06 UTC 2004

        I am tempted to go to the Mich to see it tomorrow
        when it opens. I only go to see first run films
        about once per century.

tod
response 9 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 15:27 UTC 2004

This response has been erased.

slynne
response 10 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 15:34 UTC 2004

Haha. I am kind of thinking that I might try to catch a morning show at 
Showcase tomorrow but I dont think I am going to have time. GRRRR
furs
response 11 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 16:13 UTC 2004

re #5.  I'm sorry, you are wrong.  That would be iggy.
klg
response 12 of 323: Mark Unseen   Jun 24 16:26 UTC 2004

This movie is, of course, a despicable work of propaganda and 
trickery.  But we are interested in learning whether the "we're under 
attack" quote is, in fact, true.  If so, (1) how is that known if it 
was whispered and (2) was the the entire extent of the interchange 
between the President and his aide?
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