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pvn
Election year approaches - the solution to the education problem. Mark Unseen   Dec 9 08:49 UTC 2003

As we are approaching another primary season in addition to a major
election cycle I thought I would reveal a little known secret solution
to the problem of "education reform" that has been a well used and
abused political stocking horse for about half a century or more.  Its a
secret solution that nobody who has a vested interest wants to consider.
Its very simple and doesn't involve complicated voucher systems or lots
more tax funded initiatives - or even unfunded initiatives or
standardized testing.  And its very simple in that it already has a vast
body of common law behind it.  Doesn't require Supreme Court oversight
or questions of separation of church and state.  Doesn't even require
more tax dollars.  So simple you wonder why nobody supports it.

Require all employees of public school systems to send their children to
one.  

Its that simple.  

Just like many firemen or policemen are required to be residents of the
entity that pays them, require all employees of public school systems to
send their children to public school. Require those employed by the
taxpayers to consume their own work product.

29 responses total.
happyboy
response 1 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 10:13 UTC 2003

how would you suggest we *require* it, write a *law*?

heh, good luck attracting more teachers to the field
and solving the problem of a teacher shortage that way,
buckaroo.  you get what you pay for.

it's not the teachers who are the problem, think about it
next time your daughter spends lots of frustrating hours
preparing for some bush admin mandated *no child left behind*
standardized test...think about where the problem lies.
md
response 2 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 12:11 UTC 2003

In, uh, the Bush admin?  Standardized tests?  "No child left behind"?  
WHAT IS IT??
jp2
response 3 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 13:35 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

bru
response 4 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 14:43 UTC 2003

they were talking the other day about a district wehre the teacher was removed
in a dispute with the children in her calss, adn she was amking $75,000.00
gull
response 5 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 14:48 UTC 2003

jp2's experience with teachers is different from mine.  But if what he
says is true, it's probably because if you have that kind of knowledge,
you can make far more money in just about any occupation other than
teaching.  There really isn't much to attract highly qualified people to
the teaching profession.

bru's figure is an unusual case.  The average teacher salary in the U.S.
is $44,400.  It ranges from around $50,000 in California to $30,000 in
South Dakota.  Many engineering graduates have *starting* salaries
higher than that.
polygon
response 6 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 15:10 UTC 2003

In my experience, public school teachers have a certain loyalty to the
public schools.

On the other hand, it's not hard to imagine a situation where a child
has special needs not met by the public schools.

I remember a prominent politician who was very committed to public
education.  He was elected to a major position, moved to the capital, and
sent his son to the public schools there.  But the son had pretty bad
time.  He was targeted, beaten up by toughs day after day, and I think
they broke some bones.  Eventually, a deal was quietly worked out to send
him to a suburban school district.

Sure, it would have been easy to nail the father to the wall about this
politically.  But what the hell else could he have done?  Provide a
bodyguard and make his son even more conspicuous?

Holding kids hostage to politics has a certain appeal, especially if you
see teachers as the problem.  Maybe in the long run it might change things
for the better.  But the needs of the kids in the present need to come
first.
gelinas
response 7 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 16:03 UTC 2003

(I can't find the Ann Arbor salary schedule online, nor on my machine's disk
right now.  IIRC, an MA, with an additional 90 credit-hours, and ten years'
teaching experience is worth $60,000/year.  A PhD with ten year's teaching
experience approaches $70,000.  A BA and no experience is worth something like
$26,000 per year.)
gull
response 8 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 16:27 UTC 2003

I'm sure the market has changed over the past few years, but when I
graduated from college in 2000 a lot of my friends who had BS degrees in
engineering and no experience were starting at $60,000.  So basically,
by going into education you cut your wage-earning potential by more than
half, even if you pick a school district that pays relatively well.
gull
response 9 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 16:28 UTC 2003

(My little brother thinks he wants to go into teaching, and my dad is
really torn between encouraging him and pointing out to him that there's
no money in it.)
bru
response 10 of 29: Mark Unseen   Dec 9 20:17 UTC 2003

I wish Iwas making a salary of $40,000 at any position I have ever worked.
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