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oval
wall of shame Mark Unseen   Aug 5 16:46 UTC 2003

check out the WALL

http://www.indymedia.nl/nl/2003/08/13163.shtml

166 responses total.
oval
response 1 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 16:57 UTC 2003

and btw:

The officially stated reason for building the 'security fence' is to prevent
the unauthorised passage of Palestinians out of the West Bank. However, the
route of the so-called does not follow the internationally
recognised pre-1967 borders of the State of Israel. The Israeli authorities
refuse to publish the official path of their 'security' . However,
research carried out by the Israeli human rights group, BTselem, the
planned route for the fence will isolate a number of Palestinian villages
and rob a great many more of their farmland. Thereby, enabling the
acquisition of even more Palestinian land by the Israeli state. B Tselem
estimates that the Apartheid Wall will cause direct harm to at least 210,000
Palestinians in 67 cities, towns and villages. 

http://palsolidarity.org/pressreleases/PR_28Jul03_20_16_47JeninISMJenin.htm

klg
response 2 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 16:59 UTC 2003

Yes.  It is a shame that the Arabs have been unable to control their 
killings of innocent women, children and the elderly, for had they been 
willing and able to do so, the wall would not have been built.
novomit
response 3 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 17:00 UTC 2003

From what I understand, the Israeli record hasn't been much better. 
klg
response 4 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 17:02 UTC 2003

Ah.  A misunderstanding.
novomit
response 5 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 17:03 UTC 2003

Promoted by our "free press" no doubt. 
oval
response 6 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 17:14 UTC 2003

wall photo gallery:
http://www.4blacksheep.com/photos/separation_wall/

Frequently Asked Questions:

 

Israel has recently announced that it will isolate Palestinians from Israelis
(both inside Israel and in the Occupied Palestinian Territories) by erecting
walls and buffer zones in a plan styled unilateral separation. 

 

 

1.          Whats wrong with Israels unilateral separation and the
construction of a wall?

 

The wall will not be built on Israels border. [1]  Israel has already
announced that it will build the wall to the east of Israels border in the
Occupied Palestinian Territories, thereby de facto annexing more Palestinian
land.  The strategy is to annex as much Palestinian land as possible while
militarily caging in as many Palestinians as possible, all in an attempt to
continue Israels colonization and occupation of Palestinian land.  At the same
time, Israel will effectively isolate Palestinian population centers from one
another,[2] and restrict not only freedom of movement of individuals but also
of goods and services, thereby worsening an already crippled Palestinian
economy.   

 

2.         Where is Israel planning to build the wall?

 

Israel will build the wall east of Israels 1967 border in Occupied Palestinian
Territory, thereby de facto annexing more Palestinian land, in particular with
respect to Occupied East Jerusalem. 

 

Not only will Israel build a wall, Israel has also begun erecting
militarily-enforced electrified fences around Palestinian controlled Areas
A (consisting of approximately 17.2% of the West Bank divided into 13 separate
non-contiguous ghettos).  The wall, the fences and the new movement
restrictions for Palestinians[3] effectively cage Palestinians into
Israeli-created ghettos or Bantustans. 

 

Israel is not building the wall on the 1967 border.  Israeli governments led
by both Labor and Likud have repeatedly stated that Israel will not return
to the pre-1967 border.[4]   

 

3.         Isnt the wall necessary for Israels security?

 

No.  The wall is not protecting Israeli citizens inside Israel, it is instead
protecting Israels occupation, illegal colonies and ongoing colonization of
Palestinian land.  If Israel is truly interested in its security it will do
one or both of the following:  (1) withdraw completely from all of the
territories it occupied in 1967 or (2) place additional security on its
internationally-recognized border, rather than in the Occupied Palestinian
Territories.

 

Israel has long had the formula for peace and security  end the occupation.
In exchange for its complete withdrawal from Palestinian and other Arab land
occupied in 1967, Israel will live in peace and in security.  Despite the fact
that peace and normalization were recently offered to Israel by the entire
Arab world during the Arab League Summit of March 2002, Israel walked away
from this gesture, demonstrating that it prefers land and colonization to
peace and security.  

 

 

4.         What is Israel really trying to do by building a wall?

 

Israel is attempting to annex parts of the Occupied Palestinian Territories
by establishing militarily-enforced Palestinian ghettos corresponding to the
Palestinian population centers, while continuing its illegal colonization
policy.  The walls will ensure that Palestinians are denied the ability to
move, while Israeli settlers will be able to freely travel throughout the
Occupied Palestinian Territories.

 

Unilateral separation and walls will also ensure that Occupied East Jerusalem
is completely sealed off from the rest of the Occupied West Bank, in violation
of international law, UN Resolutions and the stated policy of the United
States.[5]

 

5.         Is Israels unilateral separation legal under international law?

 

No.  Unilateral separation violates the Fourth Geneva Convention, including
the following obligations which cannot be abrogated by invoking military
necessity: 

    *  Prohibition on the Use of Collective Punishment: 

 

No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not
personally committed.  Collective penalties and likewise all measures of
intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.  (Fourth Geneva Convention,
Article 33(1))

 

The wall will serve to divide the Occupied Palestinian Territories with
movement from one area to another controlled entirely by the Israeli army,
in effect punishing the entire Palestinian population.  Jewish Israelis
illegally living in the Occupied Palestinian Territories will, however, enjoy
total freedom of movement.

 

    * Prohibition Against Annexation: 

 

Protected persons who are in occupied territory shall not be deprived, in any
case or in any manner whatsoever, of the benefits of the present Convention
by any change introduced, as the result of the occupation of a territory, into
the institutions or government of the said territory, nor by any agreement
concluded between the authorities of the occupied territories and the
Occupying Power, nor by any annexation by the latter of the whole or part of
the occupied territory. (Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 47)

 

Israel will de facto annex additional areas of the Occupied Palestinian
Territories.

 

 6.        Is Israels unilateral separation legal under the Oslo Agreements?

 

No, unilateral separation violates the Oslo Agreements.

 

         Obligation to Preserve the Territorial Integrity of the Occupied
Palestinian Territories: 

 

The two sides view the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as a single territorial
unit, the integrity and status of which will be preserved during the interim
period.  (Interim Agreement, Chapter 2, Article XI)

 

The construction of a wall within the Occupied Palestinian Territories
violates the territorial integrity of the West Bank.

 

         Prohibition Against Restricting Freedom of Movement: 

 

Without derogating from Israels security powers and responsibilities in
accordance with this Agreement, movement of people, vehicles and goods in the
West Bank, between cities, towns, villages and refugee camps, will be free
and normal and shall not need to be effected through checkpoints or
roadblocks.  (Interim Agreement, Annex I, Article IX, para 2(a))

 

Israels security powers, with respect to freedom of movement, extend only to
prohibiting or limiting the entry into Israel of persons and of vehicles from
the Occupied Palestinian Territories.  Building a wall within the Occupied
West Bank affects Palestinian freedom of movement not only into Israel, but
also within and throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

 

 

7.         What is the international community doing to stop this?

 

Nothing that has had any effect.  The Fourth Geneva Convention obliges the
international community to ensure that the Convention, the primary purpose
of which is to protect a population under occupation, is respected:

 

The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and ensure respect for the
present Convention in all circumstances. (Fourth Geneva Convention, Article
1)

 

Despite the fact that these actions are illegal under international law and
the Oslo Agreements, the international community has not stopped Israel.  The
international community continues to teach Israel that it is above the law.


klg
response 7 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 00:07 UTC 2003

Now that the hysterics have abated, may we consider some factual and 
more logical information?

http://www.aipac.org/obstacletoterrorism072903.htm

Near East Report, July 29, 2003
Obstacle to Terrorism 

"After nearly three years of Palestinian terrorism, including 122 
successful suicide bombings originating in the West Bank, Israel is 
building a security fence along its porous border. . .

"While Israel continues to look to the Palestinian Authority (PA) to 
dismantle terrorist groups . . . the Jewish state is taking its own 
steps to thwart attacks by constructing the fence . . . "This fence is 
aimed at preventing terrorist attacks and attempts to torpedo the peace 
process," Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said . . .

"The security fence . . . should to a large extent negate the need for 
the IDF to carry out military action against terrorists in civilian 
areas . . .  Having a fence as a security buffer would also reduce the 
number of IDF soldiers within Palestinian cities and towns and would 
serve to minimize the uses of curfews and other security measures . . .

"(W)here the construction of the security fence has separated 
Palestinian farmers from their fields, Israel has begun creating dozens 
of agricultural passageways to enable the farmers to tend to their 
crops.  Additionally, more than 60,000 olive trees that lay in the path 
of the security fence have been uprooted and replanted . . . 

"Israel has approved two sections of the fence, both of which run close 
to the former "Green Line" border. . . 

"Along only three sections of the security fence, Israel has built 
large, concrete barricades.  Accounting for less than 10 percent of the 
entire defensive obstacle, these walls are built right on the former 
"Green Line" near centers of Palestinian terrorism. . .

"The Palestinian town of Qalqilya, which sits adjacent to the Israeli 
town of K'far Saba, is the only major Palestinian population area that 
will have a defensive physical obstacle installed around its perimeter 
under currently approved plans . . .  During times of calm, residents 
will be able to travel east into the West Bank via the major road out of 
the city without any security checkpoints.  So-called enclaves such as 
Qalqilya will only affect 2 percent of Palestinians . . .

"The security fence can be moved or removed to meet a future peace deal. 
. . In the past, Israel has been willing to move fences . . . Along the 
border with Lebanon. . . Israel has moved sections of fence more than a 
dozen times in order to implement its U.N.-certified withdrawal from 
Lebanon. . . ."
pvn
response 8 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 06:13 UTC 2003

#7 doesn't seem to contradict previous claims.  I think even the
canadians would have a problem if the US built walls and bunkers on the
canadian side of the border.  I'm sure mexico would.  Perhaps the
solution is for the IDF to pay rent to the landowners to build stuff
that isn't on their own property.
mary
response 9 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 13:25 UTC 2003

Israel is welcome to wall itself in.  No problem.
But what is happening, even mentioned in #8, is 
Israel is enclosing Palestinian areas as a defensive
action.

Totally unacceptable.

What amazes me is how Israelis can possibly think
this will work or help the peace process. 
oval
response 10 of 166: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 13:43 UTC 2003

if i were to shove a loaded gun into klg's mouth, we'd get along pretty well.

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