rcurl
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Non-profit corporate memberships in Grex
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May 17 19:28 UTC 1997 |
This item picks up the discussion of an "institutional membership" in
grex for non-profit corporations at response #162 in Item 7.
#162 of 176: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Thu, May 15, 1997 (02:11):
There are some advantages to Grex to attract non-profits as members. Grex
can always use more support and non-profits would be good members as they
have an understanding of non-profit operation (such as Grex), might
attract some of their members to membership, and could be encouraged to
fw new and interesting conferences in their activity areas.
The question can be posed, how can Grex attract non-profits as members or
donors? Nothing is being done now to do so. How does grex attract
*anyone* as a donor? I would say it doesn't, except when there is a
specific fundraiser. What attracts donors otherwise is essentially only
membership.
[cmgee raises the notion that non-profits shouldn't even use Grex. But
any use of Grex by a non-profit is managed by an individual. Is she
suggesting that even though the use of Grex by an individual on behalf of
a non-profit is within all existing guidelines, there should be a new
policy to forbid such use?]
My proposal for a voting membership category for non-profit corporations
isn't receiving any support, so I will pose the question otherwise: how
can these *very good citizens* be attracted to support Grex? Just waiting
for them to do so is not likely to work (it does not work with the 14,000
non-member users of Grex). Some sort of identity or recognition of these
very special users is all I can think of. If not membership on the par
with individuals with a vote, what else would be attractive?
#163 of 176: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Thu, May 15, 1997 (14:19):
The possibility of a "raid" on grex by corporate members with a vote, as
envisaged by Marcus in #160, is *extremely* remote, if not impossible.
There are a number of factors that mitigate against it: it is expensive
at $60 each (not that grex couldn't use the money.. ;->; there is nothing
to be gained (grex's real assets are negligible); it would take more
corporations than I bet that guy has to influence an election; the
strategy would be public and I'm sure the rest of grex membership would
turn against it; the staff would not cooperate; and even giving a vote,
it would be easy to erect a defense in advance (for example, require that
all non-profit members have different resident agents).
I've been around a number of small non-profits that give the vote to
non-profit (and even profit) corporate members, and I've never heard of
any hanky panky. The only threat entailed in this is when a non-profit
has very large assets - millions of dollars - when the expensive of a
corporate raid has potential payoff. I know one case where such a
non-profit converted from a membership base to a shareholder base with
the board deciding who can buy the shares. Grex is the most unlikely
target imaginable.
In one membership-based non-profit for which I was a cofounder and am a
current trustee, the Institutional members (with votes) are a federal
National Forest, a community museum, a county soil and water conservation
district, a university club, and another non-profit with similiar goals.
These associatons have all been very mutually beneficial, and not just
because they provide additional monetary support. What is really the
benefit is 'networking' - non-profits working together with other
non-profits for mutual benefits. This is what happens in the real world
#164 of 176: by Marcus D. Watts (mdw) on Thu, May 15, 1997 (23:42):
Rane must circulate in a better atmosphere than I do. I've *seen* such
hanky-panky, more than once, from the commercial world ($10 million), to
the small scale (local "for fun" clubs). While money is often the
motive, it is not always - there *are* plenty of people who get off on
power trips.
Pure malevolent mischief is not the only reason we should be concerned.
It is entirely possible to get the same outcome without any malevolence.
First one or two non-profits set up shop here, and find life good.
Friends tell friends, and a few other non-profits show up, and start
helping the system. Non-profit people use their board experience to run
for the grex board. Meetings are run in a more "professional" manner.
Outside funding is found to supplement chronically short membership
donations. Special projects are undertaken to support the needs of
non-profits. It is very possible for the balance of power to shift in
just such an evolutionary fashion, entirely guided by good intentions.
Once it happened, it would be hard to undo. How do you replace
substantial non-member corporate funding? How do you make your voice
heard at board meetings run by RRO, when none of the board members wants
to listen to you?
#165 of 176: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (01:03):
Your scenario doesn't sound so bad at all.. ;->. That's approximately how
non-profits in the real world go about attaining their objectives. Having
people from non-profits with an interest in grex sounds good, and nothing
wrong with them running for the board if they get member support. The
meetings could sure stand being more efficient and also address the real
issues confronting grex apart from staff matters. Outside funding sounds
good too, but that would be very slow developing, no matter how much more
'professional' the board is. Grex needs more special projects to take
advantage of the talents of the members, for furthering the purposes of
grex. Now..."balance of power"...between what? Up to this point, Grex
would just have a more diversified board, maybe. Who's fighting whom?
Nobody. There would be more ideas and more options, and the members get
to discuss and decide them all. The board would listen to anyone with
ideas and suggestions, and I don't see much chance of "substanial
non-member corporate funding", simply because other non-profits are
limited by monetary resources just like grex.
But there would be infusions of membership dues, and an infusion of
talented and dedicated people from many activities.
#166 of 176: by Marcus D. Watts (mdw) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (02:41):
The problem is that's not really the mission grex was originally
designed to address. Grex was designed to be a public access system for
individual *people*, not *corporations*, no matter how deserving. In a
sense, what you're asking for is almost like taking an apartment
building, and turning it into the New Center.
#167 of 176: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (12:55):
This is getting overblown (and I contributed to it in #165 by making it
sound like more would happen than would).
I am suggesting that small, poor, non-profits andmembers of non-profits
are already using grex to assist them in their volunteer activities. If
grex could more specifically recognize this small group of users by
accepting the non-profits as (say) "institutional members", some of these
small non-profits are likely to join to support grex. That would be a few
more dollars in grex's coffers, which we are not likely to attract
otherwise. *In addition*, there would be possible other benefits through
the mutual associations, although I would guess that not in most cases.
But some mutual benefits might be very valuable to grex and its
associated non-profits: who can tell?
A survey to determine what non-profits are using grex, and how, might be
useful. It could be conducted via the motd, and request that non-profits
or volunteers with non-profits using grex contact an individual. That
individual could have a short questionnaire to determine some things
about each non-profit (purpose, number of members, how grex is being
used, etc), and whether they would consider supporting grex with a
membership, if an "institutional" membership were available.
#168 of 176: by Mark A. Conger (aruba) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (15:06):
Well, that survey sounds like a good idea, Rane. Are you volunteering?
:) I mostly agree with Marcus that Grex's mission has been a meeting
place for people, run by people for the purposes of establishing a
community. I don't know that making a corporate membership non-voting
has to make it seem like a "second-class" membership, especially since
such members probably wouldn't want to vote anyway, as you said.
I like the idea of Grex being useful to non-profits, though. Perhaps
what we should do is to try to make Grex as useful to non-profits as
possible, but rather than recruit the non-profits themselves as members,
try to recruit the people behind the corporations. It seems like they
might be ideal candidates for becoming involved in Grex's community, and
eventually supporting it.
Maybe not, I don't know.
#169 of 176: by Jan Wolter (janc) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (16:14):
I'd do the following:
(1) make a web page listing all Grex members (except any who request
not to be listed). Sort of a public "Grex thanks..." thing.
(2) create a catagory of non-voting corporate memberships. They'd be
listed on the page, and their organizational Grex accounts would be
internet enabled, but they could not vote.
#170 of 176: by Kevin Albaugh (albaugh) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (16:55):
Leave my name off any web page of grex members. Let 'em create an
account on grex and figure out how to access the "members" command, if
they can...
#171 of 176: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (17:21):
Are thre any objections to my doing a survey?
#172 of 176: by John H. Remmers (remmers) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (17:49):
Re #170: If they create an account using webnewuser and then
access grex exclusively from backtalk, they won't be able to use
the 'members' command, because they won't ever telnet here.
#173 of 176: by Valerie Mates (valerie) on Fri, May 16, 1997 (22:58):
Rane -- I think a survey would be fine. I suggest either calling it your
own personal survey of non-profit uses of Grex, or posting a copy of it
in co-op for feedback before asking non-profits to fill in the info.
#174 of 176: by Rane Curl (rcurl) on Sat, May 17, 1997 (00:37):
Here is my draft survey. The first item goes into the motd. The survey
is a response to mail received.
motd notice:
NON-PROFIT CORPORATE USERS - please send e-mail to rcurl to be included
in a survey of use of Grex by such organizations. -rcurl
Message for responders:
Thank you for responding to my note in the motd. Grex is aware that a
number of non-profit corporations, or members of such corporations, are
using Grex for e-mail, web pages and other communications. There is a
discussion now (Item 7 in the coop conference) of the desirability of
creating a class of "institutional membership" just for non-profit
corporations, to both recognize their importance in our community, and to
facilitate their supporting Grex with dues. First, though, we have to
know who are the non-profit users of Grex, and a little about their
needs.
I would appreciate it if a representative of your non-profit corporation
would fill in the following questionnaire, and return it to me.
1. Would it be OK for the information you provide to be identified by
your corporation, or would you wish not to be identified in the public
record?
2. What is the name of your non-profit corporation, and what are its
purposes?
3. Are you director or member based, and if member based, how many
members do you have?
4. How is your grex account being used?
file archive
e-mail
forwarding mail to a group
topical conferencing
telnet access to other servers
5. About how many members of your organization are members of Grex?
6. Would your organization be interested in joining Grex as
some kind of "institutional member"?
7. If the answer is yes, would the organization having a vote for
Grex directors be important?
8. Would there be any services that Grex might provide specifically to
"institutional members" that would facilitate their operations?
Thank you for your time.
Rane L. Curl
#175 of 176: by Daniel Gryniewicz (dang) on Sat, May 17, 1997 (13:53):
I like it. Suggestion: Start a new item about it. This one is a bit
long, with lots of stuff not quite in this topic.
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