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Grex > Coop9 > #83: WHAT GREX NEEDS (INSTEAD OF AN ISDN) | |
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freek
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WHAT GREX NEEDS (INSTEAD OF AN ISDN)
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Mar 29 05:41 UTC 1997 |
Ok, here is what grex needs, more then a stupid ISDN... MORE LOCAL SUPPORT.
This place has like 50 people telneting in, and 10 (maybe) dialing in... that
SUCKS... also, there should be a limit of telnetters on this place... 70
people on grex is TOO MANY... you know, its a BAD thing when the load
average is 100+ <sigh> Also, grex needs a better damned serial thing in which
you could have <gasp> 14.4 modems and whatnot.
Good luck!
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| 25 responses total. |
jenna
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response 1 of 25:
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Mar 29 05:55 UTC 1997 |
Why?? What's wrong with us telnetters? We are equally capable of
contributing to Grex's community, with ideas and myuch less importantly
money. Some of grex's most passionate speakers (so to type)
are not from Ann Arbor. While it would be knifty if Grex could
get more modems and a better ISDN and I think it SHOULD do
both as it can, as well as increase the total # of people allowed
on at a time *again as funds and equipment permit* I don't think
ANYONE deserves preference. 70 people at a time is mostly too many
because Grex gets lagged up, not becauswe its incredibly crowded...
70 in s real life building with different rooms is small for
the sort of place Grex equates to. (say a civic center or something
with meeting rooms, commons rooms, offices, discussion areas,
meetings, libraries, parks... the the like....)
*shrug* We should all just put our energy into making Grex faster,
easier to access --etc.-- for EVERYbody who uses it not just one
segment of the population.
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freek
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response 2 of 25:
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Mar 29 13:16 UTC 1997 |
Um, yeah, what she said.
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remmers
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response 3 of 25:
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Mar 29 16:15 UTC 1997 |
I take it you've changed your mind then? :)
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dpc
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response 4 of 25:
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Mar 29 20:55 UTC 1997 |
Well, we really haven't got 70 in that building interacting with
*each other* because at least 50 of them are in the mail room. 8-)
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aruba
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response 5 of 25:
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Mar 29 21:39 UTC 1997 |
A few statistics on the membership:
We are currently at 108 members. Of those,
82 live within a local call of Ann Arbor
12 live elsewhere in Michigan
14 live outside Michigan.
So there's no question that it's the people who dial in who do most of the
supporting of Grex.
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mdw
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response 6 of 25:
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Mar 30 02:56 UTC 1997 |
Actually, that's not a fair assumption. I "live within a local call of
Ann Arbor", but almost exclusively use telnet.
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pfv
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response 7 of 25:
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Mar 30 04:19 UTC 1997 |
Hmmm... "fiscal donations", anyway <shrug>
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jenna
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response 8 of 25:
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Mar 30 05:58 UTC 1997 |
Yeah.. aruba, thanks for the rundown, but last I heard
Grex wasn't just out for money. Last I heard, ideas and
sharing them was more important. I HOPE that's still the case.
Nonetheless, the fact that many A2's contribute monetarily
to Grex still doesn't entitle them to more privelges based
on geographic location. The fact that they're MEMBERs shouldn't
entitle them to more priveledges or say. Or do we want to go
do the m-nethian path?
*shrug* wow I spelled shrug right... looks funny tha5t way.
I do find it deeply disturbing how fast aruba (not picking
on him, just using an immediate example) and others are to
bring up money and memberships. MOney is great, grex needs it
I want Grex to have enough money to grow and maintain itself...
but I will throw up if it becomes a place where the only valued
people are those who contribute monetarily. Because then who
cares about what this stuff is really all here for --
to communicate with people for fun, for educaation, for support...
-- in an environment where money is always on the tip of
the tongue, those things die. *sighs* let's just keep off that
and all try and fundraise and hound people for memberships
so that Grex has so much money nobody's complaining about
inequity of services...
Lots of ideas on how to get more money have been thrown out over
time, from finding out how to accept Indian currency to
another auction. Maybe someone should start an item to discuss
them... I would be man, I need to go to bed ;{ ;}
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remmers
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response 9 of 25:
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Mar 30 13:18 UTC 1997 |
To respond to the issues raised in #0:
"Telnet access" does not equate to "non-local access".
Direct dialing as an access method is going to be fading out
I'm afraid, even for local people. I'm about as local as it's
possible to get, but like Marcus I prefer telnet to dialin. I
probably telnet more than I direct- dial, and if Grex had
a decently fast internet connection, I would probably telnet
almost exclusively. There are local users for whom dialin is not
even an option (e.g. access from U of M sites or the District
Library). As time goes on and more people get hooked up to the
internet through ISP's and online access shifts to the web, a
better internet connection is going to be necessary even to
support *local* usage adequately.
Yes, it would be nice for Grex to support 14.4bps or faster
direct-dial access, and we want to do that. The holdup there,
as I understand it, is not so much money as finding the
volunteer time necesssary to get a terminal server working
that will support that access speed.
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scg
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response 10 of 25:
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Mar 30 18:12 UTC 1997 |
Also, even if we do have more dial-in users contributing financially than
Internet users, that's not necessarily a bad thing. The dial-in users cost
us a lot more per user than the Internet users do.
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remmers
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response 11 of 25:
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Mar 30 18:49 UTC 1997 |
Hadn't thought of that aspect, but you're quite right. By far
the largest part of Grex's phone bill goes to support dial-in
users. There's about 10 lines for them and only one phone line
for all the telnetters put together.
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remmers
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response 12 of 25:
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Mar 30 18:51 UTC 1997 |
(Or rather, two lines for the telnetters, as I believe Grex also
pays the phone costs for ICNet's end of the connection. But the
comparison is still valid.)
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pfv
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response 13 of 25:
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Mar 30 20:14 UTC 1997 |
Just for the "grins and chuckles", try killing the dialins for
even a month.. Save some money.
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mta
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response 14 of 25:
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Mar 30 21:06 UTC 1997 |
It wouldn't save money because we'd have to either continue to pay for
the lines or pay to reconnect them at the end of the "grins and chuckles".
In the end, higher cost for zero gain.
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aruba
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response 15 of 25:
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Mar 30 22:58 UTC 1997 |
Re #8: I'm not in any way saying that money is the only way, or the most
important way, to contribute to Grex. I'm just trying to do my job as
Treasurer and report some statistics which I thought were relevant to the
discussion (and which only the treasurer has the data to generate).
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e4808mc
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response 16 of 25:
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Mar 30 23:10 UTC 1997 |
You would lose some contributors, (like me), if you dumped dial-in. I have
no other way of reaching Grex. I don't have access to UM, I don't have a
commercial provider like AOL, all I have are the phone lines.
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jenna
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response 17 of 25:
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Mar 30 23:46 UTC 1997 |
I don't think anybody really wants to get rid of dial-ins...
if it happens over the course of time, it happens, ut nobody
isd mking a conscious effort to get rid of them (I don't think?)
And I didn't mention, but also have always been aware that
many local people have ISP's and telent in anyway --
it maybe easier to get on telnetting, or maybe they want
to use netscape and an e-mail program from their server
while Grexing, or telent to multiple places. In my case...
sometimes I"m on grex, monolith, checking my mail,
mudding and in some sort of AOL chatroom. ((when I was
on oeonline, it was an oeonline chatroom)). Can' do that
dialing in, even if you are local... thus I"m, sure plenty
local people often telnet in.
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janc
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response 18 of 25:
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Mar 31 00:20 UTC 1997 |
I think Grex is a better service for local users than it is for remote users.
For local users, Grex provides:
- a minimal internet connection for people who haven't got one.
- a chance to meet people on line who you could get to know face-to-face.
Because Grex provides these unique and important services only to local
people, the local community will always be important to us.
I think we are currently doing a sad job of that, because of the miserable
state of our dial-in lines. We need better, faster modems.
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aruba
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response 19 of 25:
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Mar 31 00:25 UTC 1997 |
I'm with Jan.
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valerie
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response 20 of 25:
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Mar 31 00:41 UTC 1997 |
This response has been erased.
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jenna
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response 21 of 25:
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Mar 31 16:19 UTC 1997 |
re 20 (not the auction part): All I'm saying is that local
users are not somehow better than remote users; they do not
deserve better services, just equal services. Whether or
not they currently have that is somewhat questionable...
and it would be great if grex could get better modems hooked
up and better computers and better internet connections ALL.
I think equal attention should be paid to upgrading all of
this stuff whenever possible, andI think it IS. ;}
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freek
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response 22 of 25:
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Apr 1 03:57 UTC 1997 |
actually, i've had to telnet to grex before, and i must say i never want to
have to that again.... ESPECIALLY when the load average is 121.42, and theres
65 people on... well hell, when the load average is _60_ and theres 30 people
on, i always wonder exactly WHY locals BOTHER telnetting to grex.. yeah, i
know you can use the web and that other crap, but the lag makes is SOOOO not
worth it.. and i guess until grex gets a T3, i wont be telneting... 2400 IS
better then telneting last i checked... oh well.
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freek
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response 23 of 25:
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Apr 1 03:59 UTC 1997 |
Oh yeah, another thing about telneting and dialing in... i've noticed that
the phone lines seem to be more reliable then telnet is... (I may be wrong
but) i've never heard of the phone lines crashing, sept during bad storms...
<shrug>
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mdw
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response 24 of 25:
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Apr 1 23:35 UTC 1997 |
Phone line quality varies greatly. I've found enough noise on the lines
from ypsilanti that I would hardly qualify them as 'more reliable'.
Also, from work, I can telnet in *and* do other things on the same
computer. From home, I can't.
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