Notes of the Board Informational Meeting of February 18, 2005

Mar 2 15:46 UTC 2005

Attending Board Members:  slynne, mary, dpc, gelinas

Non-Attending Board Members:  bhoward, vanloons, polygon

Attending Non-Board Members:  STeve, aruba, remmers

The Board meeting was never called to order on February 18, 2005 
because of lack of a a quorum (5 members).  Bhoward had sent e-mail 
stating that he would not be able to attend.  We reached vanloons by 
phone.  He said he was moving out of his apartment that evening and 
could not attend.  He said he was moving to India March 1, and wants to 
connect after then by Yahoo video conferencing.  We were not able to 
reach polygon.

The "informational meeting" began at 7:15 p.m. at slynne's house, 208 
N. Grove, in Ypsilanti.  Dpc said he thought the only thing the Board 
could do under its rules was seek a quorum or adjourn.  Since we had 
sought a quorum and failed to achieve one, we must adjourn.  Others 
present said that it was Grex practice to hold an "informational 
meeting" at which matters could be discussed, but no decisions could be 
made.  Dpc, wanting to be a good sport, took notes.

The Board first discussed the question of subpoenas.  Generally, people 
thought we should have a policy on subpoenas.  Slynne said that until 
we had a policy, she would decide what would be done if we received 
another one.  Mary said she wants the Board and staff involved.

STeve said that that four times in Grex history the staff had had 
communications with law enforcement, and the information requested had 
been public.  Mary said we don't have the resources to fight a 
subpoena.  STeve said we should examine everything on a case by case 
basis.  For example, what if we received a request for information on 
people with Arabic-sounding names?

Dpc said that cost should not be a factor in contesting a subpoena.  He 
would provide legal services at no cost.  The motion fee used to be 
$20; it may have increased.  There would probably be just one court 
hearing.  Mary said what do users expect?  People have to expect we 
will give up information.  Maybe we should say something like "you were 
warned."  

Dpc said what if someone asked for his own privileged client-lawyer 
e-mail?  Or what if someone on Grex is involved in a divorce, and a 
subpoena arrives for all the e-mail between the user and the 
boyfriend/girlfriend?  Dpc said we need two things:  a policy to give 
users notice of what we will do, and a policy on how we will handle 
things internally.  He said would draft something, although it might be 
a while.

Treasurer's Report:
None.

Staff Report:
STeve reported that the hardware was stable.  There has been one crash 
caused by an Internet card.  

The Board congratulated everyone on the smooth move to Provide.Net - 
especially gelinas.  The DSL line at the Pumpkin has not been reliable 
and gelinas will disconnect it on Monday.

Schedule Next Meeting:
The Board members present thought that the next Board meeting could be 
held on Friday, March 18, at 7:00 p.m. at mary's.  However, since 3 
members were not available, this will have to be decided on line.

Moving Out of the Pumpkin:
We are moving out of the Pumpkin on February 26.  There was a l-o-n-g 
discussion about what would be going where, and who would be taking it 
there.

Since we moved out of the Pumpkin, some of our users no longer have 
local dialin service to Grex.  The Board considered putting a terminal 
server in somewhere, or installing another phone in Ann Arbor and 
paying for forwarding. 761-3000 no longer forwards.  Further discussion 
of this matter, and a poll, will be online.  STEve said that about 25 
people use the dialins.  Dpc expressed surprise that this was such a 
small number.  Aruba said that it was part of our charitable mission to 
provide access to the Internet, and that if we do not provide phone 
lines we are not providing a minimal connection to the Internet for 
people with limited means.  Apparently 4 people are being affected by 
the long-distance problem.

New Business:
Aruba reported that he had done the personal property tax return.

Dpc said that he had been getting at least 50 pieces of spam a day on 
his Grex e-mail account, and  suddenly there was an almost total lack 
of spam.  STeve said that it was not our doing.  He said that most spam 
is due to "zombie" machines, especially at universities, which have 
been taken over by spammers.  Whoever was spamming their machine had 
been knocked off; hence no spam.  STeve said that when we go to some 
form of Spam Assassin, Grex will box down, and we will need a second 
box.  Gelinas said that the University of Michigan is going with 
DeSpam.  Remmers said that a new version of exim is coming out, and it 
will have hooks for Spam Assassin.

STeve said that Grex is still as big as most medium-sized colleges in 
terms of what we do.  We are one of the larger OpenBSD systems in the 
world.

Dpc expressed his concern that in order to use Grex e-mail people still 
have to use telnet, which is obsolescent.  He pointed out that when he 
clicks on the "Telnet In" link on the home page, he gets a system 
message saying that telnet is not supported on the Mac for OS 9.2.  He 
said we should move to Web mail.  He said we should either install 
decent e-mail or not offer it at all.

The informational meeting adjourned at 8:40 p.m.

response 2 of 24:

Mar 2 18:50 UTC 2005

 STeve said that that four times in Grex history the staff had had
 communications with law enforcement, and the information requested had
 been public.  Mary said we don't have the resources to fight a
 subpoena.  STeve said we should examine everything on a case by case
 basis.  For example, what if we received a request for information on
 people with Arabic-sounding names?
I don't even know where to start on this.  First, and foremost, "Were all four
subpoenas FROM law enforcement?"  Second: Does Grex have to "fight" a subpoena
if it is a ridiculous civil court request? Third: "Arabic-sounding names"???
What did STeve mean by that? I'm trying to assume he was implying Grex would
have the balls to discern against profiling of its users by prying eyes and
only comply to a subpoena of substance with solid requests by a judge rather
than for a civil situation that might not have any merit. Am I wrong here?
*slaps forehead*

response 4 of 24:

Mar 3 00:35 UTC 2005

Is there any way board members could give notice a week in advance if they
cannot attend a scheduled meeting so that it can be rescheduled?

response 6 of 24:

Mar 3 06:40 UTC 2005

SBC has begun blocking port 25 on its DSL service.  That may partially
account for the spam reduction.  You can opt out of it post facto,
through their website.

response 8 of 24:

Mar 3 14:02 UTC 2005

dude, grexists, being paranoid mother fuckers, are all worried about the
patriot act this and the patriot act that, when really their proposed policy
of handing over private information BY DEFAULT to every dingbat two-bit lawyer
who's involved in a civil case and asks for it is just as bad.

being a social structure that isn't governmental (whatever real distinction
can be made between governmental and non-governmental social structures) does
not exempt you from caring about the safety and humanity of the people under
your control.

response 10 of 24:

Mar 3 17:52 UTC 2005

resp:9 I would like to see what dpc comes up with before deciding to
create a sub-committee. Our organization is pretty small so it might be
possible to simply say that board and staff should be involved in the
decision without creating a seperate committee

response 12 of 24:

Mar 3 19:36 UTC 2005

The ACLU are not our personal/organizational legal counsel.  If they
have time, they might be willing to answer a few simple questions, but
anything involved which does not fall clearly into the category of a
civil rights issue should be taken elsewhere.  Generally, our
organizational legal obligations are not the concern of the ACLU and
they are not, and should not be, the answer to our ignorance of those
obligations.

response 14 of 24:

Mar 3 20:53 UTC 2005

Sure, if we have a specific concern which clearly falls in their
purview.

response 16 of 24:

Mar 10 02:08 UTC 2005

I said she wasn't on staff.  Board members do not get 'root' access.

response 18 of 24:

Mar 10 05:49 UTC 2005

diet free water

response 20 of 24:

Mar 10 15:53 UTC 2005

"Just a quick note: slynne is not on staff and does not have, to the
best of my knowledge and belief, the current root password on grex."

If you misinterpreted "staff" to include "BoD", I'm sorry.

response 22 of 24:

Mar 10 20:26 UTC 2005

Sorry, Joe!

response 24 of 24:

May 17 02:15 UTC 2006

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE