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Grex > Coop13 > #240: Subpoenas and Similar Inquiries. | |
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| Author |
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gelinas
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Subpoenas and Similar Inquiries.
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Feb 6 20:11 UTC 2005 |
From time to time, Cyberspace Communications, Inc, is served with subpoenas.
In general, the matters are straightfoward, not requiring separate items.
So this one item is intended as the catchall for reporting the occurrences.
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| 106 responses total. |
gelinas
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response 1 of 106:
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Feb 6 20:12 UTC 2005 |
This week, we were served with a subpoena in a civil matter, requesting
identifying information for one of our users. We provided the information
we had a available.
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cyklone
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response 2 of 106:
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Feb 7 01:27 UTC 2005 |
Are you going to tell us the parties or was it one of those subpoenas you
aren't allowed to disclose to the person involved?
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mary
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response 3 of 106:
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Feb 7 02:28 UTC 2005 |
I think we'd be allowed to but it wouldn't be the right thing to do.
This person may be innocent of whatever is being investigated, for
all we know. If someone is interested they can search court
records.
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naftee
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response 4 of 106:
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Feb 7 04:15 UTC 2005 |
But you sure thought it was the right thing to do when you went to the police,
eh, mary ?
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scholar
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response 5 of 106:
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Feb 7 06:43 UTC 2005 |
Yeah, you flapping, eh, cuntlip?
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tod
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response 6 of 106:
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Feb 7 06:49 UTC 2005 |
Can you at least tell us WHICH court?
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scott
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response 7 of 106:
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Feb 7 07:19 UTC 2005 |
Can the board say whether they are under a gag order?
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scholar
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response 8 of 106:
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Feb 7 13:14 UTC 2005 |
Todd!
I'm uploading the top =secret= thing for you to the top =secret= place right
now!
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naftee
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response 9 of 106:
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Feb 7 16:26 UTC 2005 |
what!
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tod
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response 10 of 106:
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Feb 7 17:11 UTC 2005 |
The eagle will land in 30 minutes.
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scholar
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response 11 of 106:
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Feb 7 18:58 UTC 2005 |
What ever happenedto the first supoena?!
What ever happened to my understanding of how to spell that word?!
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naftee
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response 12 of 106:
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Feb 7 19:42 UTC 2005 |
IT "SUB"MERGED ! AHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
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gelinas
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response 13 of 106:
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Feb 7 20:30 UTC 2005 |
No, we aren't under a gag order. I'll provide the court name from the
subpoena when I get home.
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gelinas
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response 14 of 106:
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Feb 7 21:06 UTC 2005 |
22nd Judicial Court, 101 E. Huron, Ann Arbor, MI 48107.
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scholar
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response 15 of 106:
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Feb 7 21:15 UTC 2005 |
What ever happened to the first subpoena? It was from months back, and there
were promises of revelation.
Reveal, dammit!
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tod
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response 16 of 106:
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Feb 7 21:26 UTC 2005 |
re #14
No PO BOX?? ;)
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naftee
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response 17 of 106:
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Feb 8 02:12 UTC 2005 |
PO BOX 8645
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dpc
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response 18 of 106:
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Feb 9 13:26 UTC 2005 |
I am *not* pleased with the way this latest subpoena was handled.
Gelinas got the subpoena and furnished the information to the Ann
Arbor attorney who issued the subpoena *without* getting the
permission of the Board.
The subpoena is part of an ordinary civil lawsuit in local Washtenaw
County Circuit Court. There is no gag order.
I think the Board *should* decide what to do about each separate
subpoena on an individual basis. At the very least, the Board
should get a copy of the complaint in the case and find out what
the case is about. The Board also should decide whether or not
to contest the subpoena, based on the nature of the case and the
privacy rights of the user involved.
In this case, Gelinas just coughed up all the info requested.
A local judge might easily have cancelled the subpoena or narrowed
the amount of info we were required to produce if we had contested it.
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cyklone
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response 19 of 106:
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Feb 9 13:48 UTC 2005 |
Then gelinas acted inappropriately. The Grex board needs to get a policy in
place ASAP. Ladies and gentlemen, you have your assignment for this month.
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mary
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response 20 of 106:
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Feb 9 14:09 UTC 2005 |
Joe sent the board mail as soon as he got the subpoena and then
telling us what little information we had to offer and that he would
be handing it over. There wasn't a lot of lead time, for sure, but
that wasn't Joe's fault. Maybe you didn't see your mail because of
system mail problems?
I also don't think we should handle each case differently. If we
get a court order we should comply. We shouldn't play judge by
asking for the specifics of the situation, looking at whether it was
a law we like or not, or whether it involves a member or user. If
we don't like the way the law works we should work to change the
law, as we've done in the past. I never want to put Grex in
jeopardy, either the equipment or our budget, because we played Law
and Order.
And I'm going to go on record here that we should not consider Dave
as qualified to be Grex's legal counsel. Not without the board
being in agreement that that's what we'd like to do.
I had a feeling this would probably need an open discussion, at some
point. Just didn't think it would come up so soon.
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remmers
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response 21 of 106:
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Feb 9 15:19 UTC 2005 |
I think that the points Dave raises would have been more helpful if
raised sooner, in mail, before the subpoena was due. The board was
notified by email about the subpoena several days before it was due.
That's plenty of lead time. At some point 'baff' started to be copied
on the mail as well, so I saw it too. No board member responded with
any concerns until the night before the subpoena was due, if I recall
correctly. As I see it, Joe - who's not a legal expert - had to make a
judgement call under time pressure. In the absence of a timely response
from the board, I don't think it's fair to lay the blame entirely on Joe
for any mishandling.
Coincidentally, I ran across a "civil subpoena" policy on another
website earlier today. Maybe something like it is suitable for Grex as
well. Here's the full URL:
http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/legal_agreements/show_doc.asp?se=%2B&pageid=C
IVIL%
5FSUBPOENA
Or if that's too much of a mouthful, try: http://tinyurl.com/6apy3
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tod
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response 22 of 106:
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Feb 9 15:22 UTC 2005 |
The humorous thing about all this is that officers and directors are not
liable in tort liability. ALL of Cyberspace, Inc is. Read this as:
Mary's nightmare could come true if there was any harm caused to someone and
retribution could encompass an award of hardware and assets to the plaintiff.
So, if Joe wants to do damage on behalf of Cyberspace,Inc by acting on his
own then everyone on the ship goes down with him. Personally, I am with Dave
on this and think it should have been discussed. It might have been too big
of a reach in said subpoena. Also, without a gag order, it should at the very
least make it publically into the minutes. If staff is handing over info for
civil cases then the membership has a right to know.
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tod
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response 23 of 106:
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Feb 9 15:25 UTC 2005 |
re #21
I like the part in their legal agreement which addresses privacy laws:
"Upon the receipt of a valid civil subpoena, Go Daddy will promptly notify
the customer whose information is sought"
Please let us know if Grex extended the same courtesy at the time the info
was rendered to the courts.
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mary
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response 24 of 106:
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Feb 9 15:41 UTC 2005 |
This all just happened, within the last week. We haven't had a
board meeting to discuss it where it could have hit the minutes. We
had very little information on this user and most of that looked
like it was false but worked to get him or her through newuser.
I agree everyone needs to know Grex will be answering subpoenas,
that's what this item and earlier discussions have been about. I
agree that the person involved should be notified but first they
have to give us a way to do that by leaving valid information.
Grex is it risk for whatever we do in situations such as this. So
we go with a predictable, clearly understood response which gives us
the best chance of keeping Grex clear of trouble. In my opinion.
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