response 2 of 109:

Mar 12 16:06 UTC 2004

remmers, where's that measure you're working on?

response 4 of 109:

Mar 12 18:15 UTC 2004

It costs Jamie nothing to keep doing this, forever.

response 6 of 109:

Mar 12 22:43 UTC 2004

I'm actually curious to see if this one will get an even
higher percentage of "No" votes than the last one.

response 8 of 109:

Mar 25 22:00 UTC 2004

You know, I came to this argument incredibly late.  So instead of seeing how
it was all going to play out, I got to read it all at once.  And I got to
seriously wonder just what the hell was going on with Grex.  Can someone tell
me please?

First off, I am friends with John.  A fairly good friend in some ways, I'd
like to think.  And while I've never met Valerie, I consider her a friend as
well.  I post on her current baby diary, have apologized for my making fun
of her on m-net and consider her an invaluable source of information and
warmth.

Secondly, I can't believe that I feel so betrayed by both of them.  Strangely,
I am far more upset with John than anyone.  Yes, Valerie did wrong - I won't
deny it.  But her wrong can be restored.  John saying "Please wipe out my
items because I'm scared of the repercussions"?  Please.  Like he wasn't
warned about a bizillion times . . . .

Thirdly.  Censorship.  Do I feel censored?  In a way, yes.  I contributed a
fair bit to the divorce items, as, if any of you recall, I was getting
divorced at the same time.  Were my words stolen from me?  Sure.  And as many
objectors have pointed out, I should have saved my words myself if they were
that important to me.  But then, why did I have to?  It's true, if an act of
nature destroyed them, I'd be sad, but I'd move on.  But they haven't been
destroyed.  They are on a backup tape.  I mean, if I got John's permission
and I asked for a copy of the items, could I have it?  I said a lot of things
on there.  It was nice to go back and look at them and realize how far I'd
come, in terms of how I feel about my marriage splitting up.

The best part of this whole thing?  Valerie is gone.  And John has turned tail
and run.  Grex is cliquish.  I know this.  But I feel it truly condoned a
wrong act with another wrong act.

And as for Glenda's "give it a rest" remark, why?  Because you've had enough?
Because nothing anyone says will change your mind?  Because you don't want
to think about it anymore?  (Given your schedule, I'd almost consider that
valid.)  I guess I just don't get it.  It wasn't right what was done, and I
don't get why it's being backed up.

response 12 of 109:

Mar 26 00:36 UTC 2004

What's left to say is your vote, and the majority vote, was an
unprincipled vote to do personal favors for favored persons because, as
scott put it so well, you were "circling the wagons" against the noisy
mnetters. Instead of putting aside your prejudices, reasoning things out
and doing what is right, many of you twisted your logic and principles
into utterly unspportable positions. So history will now show (unless some
of you pussies vote to delete these discussions) that when it came time to
do the right thing, ya'll wimped out. If I'm fighting a battle with my
back to the wall, I want todd on my side, and not because he's an
ex-marine. Todd stood up for principles that mean something. Most of the
voters did not.  In my book that makes ya'll cowards. Which merits a big
FUCK YOU to all the anti-restorationists. 

response 16 of 109:

Mar 26 05:29 UTC 2004

<sigh>

response 18 of 109:

Mar 26 13:36 UTC 2004

What is your basis for saying "any restoration was actually going to cause
more damage than if nothing had been deleted in the first place."?

response 20 of 109:

Mar 26 15:06 UTC 2004

You're right, that was too broad.  None of the suggested restorations were
going to cause less harm because they only dealt with John and Valerie's
posts, and not direct quotations.

Which along with the increased attention both items would have received
due to the debate would have provided fodder for parody of Valerie or 
persecution of John.  The very things I believe they were trying to avoid.

response 22 of 109:

Mar 26 15:34 UTC 2004

I totally understand being sick of this, two months after the fact.   And I
can see how people see this as a "grex vs. m-net" thing.  But I'm on both
systems.  And I don't think I've said anythign to insult or annoy anyone. 
And yes, I truly wish that I'd been here back in the heat of things, as maybe
I could have contributed to a different outcome.

I do want to say this:  Calling someone a pussy is never going to get them
to listen to what you are saying.  Insulting them until the cows come home
is never going to get them to listen to what you are saying.  Knowing Jamie
in real life and considering him a friend and knowing how he is will not make
any person on this system who thinks he's a complete jackass change their
mind, no matter how much I say, "No really - he's a great guy and one of the
most unconditional people I know."  Jamie and I have spoken in the past on
his social retardation, but that's how Jamie is.  I cannot speak for our
little Canuck friends, so I won't.  Having met Cyklone in real life and having
known Todd for what, 4 years or so - I can say that I like and respect these
men and their opinions.  

Yes, we keep bringing it up.  And yes, it's annoying.  Seeing anti-choice
protesters at the Supreme Court always annoys me, as I feel that a decision
was made in 1973.  But that doesn't stop them from protesting or feeling that
they can and should further their cause.  And no, I'm not making a comparison
in causes, more in styles of those with the cause.  They think a woman's right
to choose is wrong - I feel a person has the right to delete or not delete
what they post on an open system, but not delete what someone else posts. 
And I truly don't understand how people on this system don't feel the same,
as while it seems as if we certainly don't agree on many issues, it also seems
as if we do agree that you have the right to say it.