| Grex > Coop12 > #58: Cyberspace Communications finances for October 2001 |  |
| Cyberspace Communications finances for October 2001 | 
Nov 1 09:37 UTC 2001 |
Here is the treasurer's report on Cyberspace Communications, Inc. finances
through October 31st, 2001.
Beginning Balance $5,943.92
Credits $538.00 Member contributions
$42.00 Proceeds from the 6th Grex Auction
$3.00 Sales of Grex handbooks
$2.00 Donations to the Silly Hat Fund
------------
$585.00
Debits $72.93 Pumpkin Rent for November
$45.97 Electricity for October
$175.41 Phone Bill
$135.00 DSL October 15 through November 15
$7.24 Paypal fees (income = $198)
------------
$436.55
Ending Balance $6.092.37
Our current balance breaks down as follows:
$4,864.51 General Fund
$143.86 Silly Hat Fund
$60.00 Spare Parts Fund
$1,024.00 Infrastructure Fund
The money is distributed like this:
$5,592.37 Checking account
$500.00 8-month 3.00% CD which comes due 5/28/2002
There was no activity in the Grex store this month, so the balances remain at:
Cash Stock
--------- ---------
$149.40 $162.10
We had five new members (drbr, jedisg, khatusg, tfbjr, and gull) and one
returning member in October. We are currently at 93 members, 88 of whom are
paid through at least November 15th. (The others expired recently and are
in a grace period.)
Notes:
- I'm glad to see some new members.
- The Auction is now wrapped up, except for following up on deliveries.
Thanks to everyone who donated items:
aruba, bruin, cmcgee, danr, ea, eeyore, jdeigert, jh, jiffer, jmm, keesan,
krj, mary, remmers, scott, tpryan, and volvo.
And thanks to everyone who bought items:
anderyn, aruba, brighn, brown, bruin, carson, charcat, cmcgee, ea, gelinas,
glenda, golfer, jep, jiffer, kami, kentn, kooky1, krj, mary, micklpkl,
mooncat, orinoco, scg, scott, sekari, swa, thehair, twinkie, and volvo.
The final total on money received is $779.00. Not too shabby!
Thanks to everyone who contributed in October:
aruba, blh, bruin, drbr, gull, hackslas, khatusg, krj, micklpkl, mnac,
tfbjr, tomaso, twinkie, webdiva, and two people who asked to remain
anonymous.
Thanks everyone!
If you or your institution would like to become a member of Grex, it only
costs $6/month or $60/year. Send money to:
Cyberspace Communications
P. O. Box 4432
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-4432
If you pay by cash or money order, please include a photocopy of some form of
ID. I can't add you to the rolls without ID. (If you pay with a personal
check that has your name pre-printed on it, we consider that a good enough
ID.) Type !support or see http://www.cyberspace.org/member.html for more
info.
| response 1 of 89: |
Nov 1 14:34 UTC 2001 |
BofAA savings interest is now down to about 1%. PAX money market is paying 2.38% current 7-day yield. In June it was 3.64%. With $6000, Grex could be earning about $142/year (more than 2 memberships) or more when rates were higher ($218 in June). Is this worth the treasurer's time needed to open an account and maybe once in a while put money in or out of it (by check, $250 minimum, which could be used to pay the phone bill).
| response 2 of 89: |
Nov 1 14:56 UTC 2001 |
Wow, $198 in via PayPal for $7 in costs and no sleepless nights... :)
| response 3 of 89: |
Nov 1 16:35 UTC 2001 |
wow, six grand in the bank. nice but earning interest a little at a time is good if your goal is long term savings. is grex's goal long term savings? seems like it might be time to invest some of those dollars in *Grex* instead of cd's with grex's name on it. Is there a ballpark figure for what bank balance grex needs to maintain in the bank to be financially secure (I'd say if grex has enough to cover the rent and its bills for six months, for instance, you could say grex is financially secure) maybe two checking accounts isnt a bad idea. One to use specifically to keep a certain amount of money and pay the bills. The other to put all money above that, which can be spent on improving grex. After all, grex is not somebody worrying about saving for retirement!
| response 4 of 89: |
Nov 1 16:52 UTC 2001 |
Re #1: I'm kind of inclined to say that the small amounts of interest being paid today aren't worth a lot of trouble. For instance, my recent plan of splitting money among 8 (or so) CDs now seems like a big hassle. I admit to a certain irrationality about not wanting to spread our money out in too many places. That's why I formed the plan with the CDs. It could be that Sindi's money market plan is best. My concern with money markets is that they're not insured. Dunno how big a concern this is. I wish someone else would decide this for me, and I'll implement it. But keep in mind that any system that gets set up has to be transferrable to a new treasurer at some point.
| response 5 of 89: |
Nov 1 17:07 UTC 2001 |
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| response 6 of 89: |
Nov 1 18:40 UTC 2001 |
Since you have grex's best interest at heart, perhaps you could do the research on out of town interest rates for nonprofits? What does stability have to do with an insured account?
| response 7 of 89: |
Nov 1 18:45 UTC 2001 |
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| response 8 of 89: |
Nov 1 18:57 UTC 2001 |
I thought the point of a bank account instead of money market was that all bank accounts are insured.
| response 9 of 89: |
Nov 1 18:57 UTC 2001 |
At some point, Grex's best interest is in keeping its volunteers happy and not overloading them with work for trivial benefits. Sindi, I don't understand your second question, "What does stability have to do with an insured account?" An insured account means the Federal Government gives Grex its money back, eventually, if the financial institution we trust with our money fails. In an uninsured account, if the financial institution fails, then that money is gone. With the Federal Reserve Bank working hard to drive interest rates towards 40 and 50 year lows, there is little money to be made on interest right now. And in the current economic climate, it's not unreasonable to insist on keeping Grex's funds insured. Mark does a spectacular job as treasurer, he puts a lot of work into it, and I would prefer not to pile additional work onto him just to make a few extra bucks on interest.
| response 10 of 89: |
Nov 1 19:12 UTC 2001 |
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| response 11 of 89: |
Nov 1 19:24 UTC 2001 |
But it is backed by the "full faith and credit" etc. etc. etc.
| response 12 of 89: |
Nov 1 19:45 UTC 2001 |
Re #3: What do you mean by "invest some of these dollars in *Grex*"?
| response 13 of 89: |
Nov 1 21:34 UTC 2001 |
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| response 14 of 89: |
Nov 1 23:43 UTC 2001 |
Have there been any cases of money market funds going bankrupt? The question about stability meant to imply that I thought that all bank accounts were insured so stability was irrelevant if one were speaking of bank accounts. I was apparently not clear. Are the municipal and state bonds that money market funds invest in any less stable than the federal government? In 20 years or so I have not noticed my $1 share price ever changing in my money market fund.
| response 15 of 89: |
Nov 1 23:46 UTC 2001 |
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| response 16 of 89: |
Nov 1 23:50 UTC 2001 |
But money market funds are diversified and spread out over many municipalities and states. If most of those go bankrupt is the federal government any more stable?
| response 17 of 89: |
Nov 1 23:58 UTC 2001 |
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| response 18 of 89: |
Nov 2 05:29 UTC 2001 |
The company offering the money-market fund can go broke. When they do, you lose your money. Which investment house was it that went belly up a few years ago? I want to say Goldman-Sachs, but that doesn't feel quite right. It was one of those on that level. And then there was the British bank that lost its shirt when one of its traders went a little wild, a decade or so ago. That share may have a nominal value of $1, but if the company it's a share of doesn't exist, that value is truly "nominal."
| response 19 of 89: |
Nov 2 07:05 UTC 2001 |
More probable, I think, is that it's within the realm of possibility for money market funds to decrease in value. If you put your money in a savings account, and the bank turns around and invests it in dot-coms, the bank still owes you the full amount, plus interest, you deposited, and if they can't come up with it the government will pitch in. If you put your money in a money market that invests in dot-coms, they only owe you an amount of money proportional to the amount you put in, with the ratio being based on how much money they lost on dot coms. I got the impression, based on my (very brief) readings on the subject some time ago, that the main difference between money markets and mutual funds is that the people running the money market promise to invest in things that are known to be very reliable, i.e. not stocks. 'course, I could be wrong. It is 2 a.m., after all.
| response 20 of 89: |
Nov 2 08:18 UTC 2001 |
re #18: Goldman Sachs is still around. Maybe E.F. Hutton? And I think Barings was the bank taken out when rogue trader Nick Leeson ran amok.
| response 21 of 89: |
Nov 2 16:11 UTC 2001 |
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| response 22 of 89: |
Nov 2 16:19 UTC 2001 |
I'd like to reiterate that I'm not trying to be obstinate or obfuscatory about opening a money market. I suspect it wouldn't be all that much work to deal with. But I'd like someone else to make the decision about where to open it and with how much.
| response 23 of 89: |
Nov 2 16:36 UTC 2001 |
You can read about PAX at www.paxworldfund.com. As of Sept. 30 they were paying 2.86% 7-day yield and on Nov. 1 2.36%. No fee, minimum of $250 to open or keep open the account, $250 min to write checks. They invest in high quality commercial papers, bank CDs, and US Govt. debt obligations. I did not find a list of what the percentages of each are. www.fidelity.com requires a higher minimum and I think has an annual fee, and checks must be at least $500 (probably not good for paying as many of grex's bills). They don't list current yields, only Sept. 30 - 3.17, 3.12 and 3.18% for three money market funds invested entirely in US Gvt securities (US Gvt, US Treasure, US Gvt Reserves). Would people consider this to be safer than PAX? The annual fee, last I checked, brought the dividend rates down to about the same as PAX. I can get the details if requested. I think it was something like 11%, which is the difference between PAX and Fidelity rates, if you go below a certain amount. I have never heard of any money market funds losing value but I can ask Fidelity about this.
| response 24 of 89: |
Nov 2 17:47 UTC 2001 |
At the current interest rates it seems like we might as well stuff the money in a mattress, for all the good investing it would do.