How long should we let auction items drag on?

Jun 29 15:22 UTC 2001

This item is for discussing policy on how long we should let auction
purchases drag on.  There are three ways this can happen:

1. If the buyer takes a long time to pay for an item,
2. If the buyer pays but the seller takes a long time to deliver an item, or
3. If the buyer pays but takes a long time to pick up an item.

All three of these cases have come up in the past, and the auctioneers have
dealt with them on a case-by-case basis.  In case 1, we generally give
buyers a couple of months to pay, and if they never do, ban them from making
bids in the future.  Sometimes we have asked the second-highest bidder on
an item if she'd still like it at the price she bid.

In case 2, we have usually waited until the buyer gets really upset, and
then refunded the money and banned the donor from future donation or
bidding. 

Case 3 is a bit trickier, since some might argue that once Grex gets paid,
delivery is a matter between the donor and buyer, and no longer our problem.
However, since the second auction we have made a committment to making sure
that all items get delivered, so that the Grex auction maintains a
reputation as someplace where you can count on getting what you pay for. 
That's why we refund money in case 2.  In case 3, though, the buyer is the
one who should be picking his item up, so it's a bit harder.

Each one of these situations is a headache for the auctioneers, so any
suggestions for dealing with them will be entertained.  I'd particularly
like to hear if there is a consensus on how long we should wait before
doing something in each of the cases.  I'm not crazy about letting things
drag on for many months, but there have been cases where people have paid
for things as much as 6 months after they bought them.  So cutting people
off earlier means less headaches for the auctioneers but potentially less
money for Grex. 

response 2 of 90:

Jun 29 23:16 UTC 2001

This came up because an item that I donated was sold a month ago, and I had
not heard from the buyer, who also had not paid, and I do not want to store
the item indefinitely.  I suggest that the donor be given an option, after
a month, of deciding whether the item should go to the next highest bidder,
if there is one, or withdrawn from the auction (so it can be sold in the
Freebies or a yard sale to make space) if nobody else bid on it.  This would
be for cases of either non-payment or non-pickup.  The donor could also decide
to wait a year for payment and pickup, of course.

response 4 of 90:

Jun 30 07:24 UTC 2001

I see nothing wrong with a time limit on payment, a month or two after final
bid, and a time limit on the pickup or delivery (unless other arangments are
made between the item donor and bid winner and grex is notified) and of corse
the second highest bidder could be offered the item but definitaly not
required to get it

anyway that's my 2-cents worth  =^.^=

response 6 of 90:

Jun 30 18:58 UTC 2001

In my case, the purchasers of five other items took care of them within about
a day of 'sold'.  Other grexers report delays of up to a year.   Sometimes
the buyer never pays at all.  I received immediate notification from the
auctioneer when an item had been paid for (copies went to donor and buyer)
and was told to arrange pickup or delivery.  In the case of an out-of-town
buyer (Chicago) I agreed to store the item until a friend had time to pick
it up for the buyer.  It is an extra burden on the auctioneers to have to send
out reminders, but it does seem sensible to send one reminder, maybe after
a month of inaction, stating that the item would go to the second-highest
bidder if the highest bidder did not do something within a week and the donor
did not want to offer indefinite storage.

response 8 of 90:

Jul 1 15:42 UTC 2001

I don't see any reason why a donor should be required to deliver an item. 
It should be the responsibility of the buyer, who is the only one of the two
actually getting a direct benefit.  And the buyer should be obligated to
either pay within a short time for an item, or contact the donor and the
auctioneer with an acceptable excuse for late payment.  
In two of three cases this year we did actually deliver, to be helpful, but
you cannot require that of a donor.  A donor is not a business.  
I propose a one-week deadline for payment (or a plausible excuse) and then
the item should be offered to the next-highest bidder, if any, and if none,
the donor can decide what to do next.  Some items are seasonal (you don't want
to be trying to get rid of a lawnmower six months after someone bid on it in
June, for instance) and others are a nuisance to store.  
        I cannot imagine someone going to a store, telling them they wanted
to purchase an item, and expecting it to be held for them, with no payment,
for six months or longer.  Buyers should show the same consideration in the
grex auction that they would in real life.  
For both the donor and the auctioneers.  Buyers with no way to collect an item
should make sure it is mailable (or that the donor or auctioneer are willing
to deliver) before bidding.  And I would not accept layaways (partial payment
to hold the item) unless the deposit was forfeited within a certain amount
of time if not paid for in full.  (We learned the hard way not to do this at
Kiwanis sale).

response 10 of 90:

Jul 1 17:48 UTC 2001

And there are some cases which are valid for people not being able to get
their money in on time.  In the case of Ebay, the donor is required to ship
or make arrangements.  Some lay-away items do work in such a way you have so
many months to pay and you can either pay a little each month or you can pay
in a lump sum.  

I know you're angry, but it sounds more like you're donating stuff that you
don't want, grex will get the money, and if the buyer REALLY wants it, then
it's their problem.  I agree that some flexibility is needed, but perhaps if
she is so concerened about it, then for keesan's items, she can put those
restrictions, and buyer beware.

response 12 of 90:

Jul 2 04:20 UTC 2001

Sindi, you keep missing the fact that we can't require the second-highest
bidder to pay anything.  That simply isn't fair - the second-highest bidder
is quite reasonable in thinking that because he lost the bidding, he might
as well spend his money elsewhere.  So if we give up on the highest bidder
after only a week, there is a good chance that Grex won't get anything at
all for the item.

response 14 of 90:

Jul 2 15:38 UTC 2001

I said 'offered to the second-highest bidder', who of course is not obligated
to purchase it.  If no other bidder still wants the item, and if the donor
and the auctioneer are both willing to let things drag out, that is fine, but
the donor should have the right to withdraw the donation if it is not paid
for and picked up within some reasonable time (still under debate).  What
happens on eBay if the highest bidder does not pay within a week?  Charcat,
what do you think about making it a default that the buyer has to pick up any
items too large to be mailed easily, unless noted otherwise?  And the donor
could also specify a cutoff time after which an item is no longer available
(for instance if there are no bids, or the bidder never paid, or it was not
picked up).  Some donors don't mind waiting a year for something to happen.
This might eliminate some headaches for the auctioneers.

response 16 of 90:

Jul 2 15:54 UTC 2001

What happens on ebay is that you are supposed to contact the person within
the week to either set up when he is supposed to expect payment or to make
payment.  If you are paying by check or money order, that takes more time.

I really think we should not be having an ebay like auction.  1.  This is to
help raise funds, not make a profit. 

2.  I think we are a lot more understanding than a lot of businesses. 

3.  I think that would discourage a lot of people from participating in the
auction.

response 18 of 90:

Jul 2 16:46 UTC 2001

In the case that sparked this discussion, the buyer had not paid or even
contacted the donor ( and probably had also not contacted the auctioneer)
within a month.  If the rules (?) were that the donor had to hold onto an item
until the buyer felt like doing something about payment, for as long as a
year, I would not donate anything - I am not a storage locker.  My suggestion
is that the buyer, if they cannot afford to purchase what they bid on within
a week, at least contact the donor and auctioneer with an expected date of
payment (at which time the donor can decide not to wait that long and either
withdraw the item and ask the auctioneer to offer it to the next highest
bidder).  Two weeks is okay with me instead of one week - but I don't see how
it can take someone longer than that to send an e-mail.  One problem is that
some people NEVER pay and everyone else loses.

response 20 of 90:

Jul 2 17:57 UTC 2001

I think #18 is fair, but let me rephrase it a little:

Once an item has been announced SOLD and the highest bidder(s) have been
contacted, they have one week to respond with a proposed payment and delivery
plan. If the proposed timeline is too long, the donor reserves the right to
remove the item from auction.

I don't like the concept of going down the bidder list until we find someone
willing to meet the donor's schedule; the only time I thin kit should even
be offered to the second highest bidder is if the highest bidder fully
withdraws their bid in which case they either get a warning (first offence)
and barred from future auction bidding (second offence). I would also say that
if it becomes clear that a donor is "picky" in that they reject several
delivery plans which seem reasonable to the people running the auction, Grex
should also reserve the right to politely turn down donations from that donor,
as well.

response 22 of 90:

Jul 3 16:44 UTC 2001

All items should have the donor's Grex login, if he/she has one.  The only
current donor who doesn't is my fiancee Carol, and you can contact me to get
to her.  You can also type "query buyer thehair" to see the donors of all
the items you've bought.

response 24 of 90:

Jul 4 01:37 UTC 2001

I agree with jiffer in #16. The auction has, as I see it, two purposes: 
not only to raise money for Grex, but to do so in a creative way that 
lets Grexers get to know one another a bit better. If we focus too much 
on serving the first purpose as efficiently as possible, we lose sight 
of the second.

Sindi, I agree that six months is too long to wait.  I also think one 
week is far too short. And I cringe at the phrase "acceptable excuse", 
which makes me think of high school attendance policies. We *are* vexed 
with the people who take six months to pay or to deliver -- but I 
suspect that the more strict we become, the more people we're going to 
lose.  There has to be some middle ground.

It sounds like what we're trying to ascertain here is whether delivery 
of an item is the donor's responsibility or the buyer's.  It's an 
important question that donors and buyers have always sorted themselves 
on a case-by-case basis in the past, as was convenient for them.  It 
would be good to have a more defined default policy in place for how 
this works.  It would also be good to keep that policy fairly flexible.

As for the question on whether the donor should have *any* 
responsibility here: the answer is that we, the auctioneers, have stated 
at the very beginning that *we* are committed to getting every item 
delivered.  That means if I enter an item in the auction that the donor 
then yanks back, I feel as if I have broken a commitment.  I don't like 
that.  I would like to keep these instances as few as possible. I would 
like donors to understand that an agreement to donate *is* an agreement, 
and not merely a statement that they might, possibly, if it's 
convenient, be willing to donate.  There are, as several people have 
pointed out here already, a variety of venues for items which one is 
simply in a hurry to get rid of.  I certainly agree that no one should 
have to hang on to something for months if they don't want to. But if 
you feel you absolutely must rid yourself of an item within a week, I 
suggest you seek one of those other venues.