|
Grex > Coop12 > #135: Cyberspace Communications finances for September 2002 | |
|
| Author |
Message |
aruba
|
|
Cyberspace Communications finances for September 2002
| 
Oct 3 03:40 UTC 2002 |
Here is the treasurer's report on Cyberspace Communications, Inc. finances
through September 30th, 2002.
Beginning Balance $5,340.33
Credits $282.00 Member contributions
$4.56 Interest on our savings account
$10.00 Commissions from sales via CafePress
$2.10 Miscellaneous donations
------------
$298.66
Debits $76.58 Pumpkin Rent for October
$45.97 Electricity for September
$175.85 Phone Bill
$135.00 DSL September 15 through October 15
$3.44 Paypal fees (income = $98.10)
$108.64 Backup tapes
------------
$545.48
Ending Balance $5,093.51
Our current balance breaks down as follows:
$3,856.52 General Fund
$152.99 Silly Hat Fund
$60.00 Spare Parts Fund
$1,024.00 Infrastructure Fund
The money is distributed like this:
$757.35 Checking account
$4,336.16 Savings account earning approximately 1.30% interest annually
The Grex store balances become:
Cash Stock
--------- ---------
$206.40 $162.10
$10.00 <-- Commissions
---------
$216.40
We had one returning member in September (micklpkl). We are currently at
82 members, 78 of whom are paid through at least October 15th. (The
others expired recently and are in a grace period.)
- This makes 6 months in a row in the red. We're down about $1000 since
the end of March.
Thanks to everyone who contributed in September:
arthurp, aruba, bruin, glenda, micklpkl, mooncat, robh, steve, and one
person who asked to remain anonymous.
Thanks everyone!
If you or your institution would like to become a member of Grex, it only
costs $6/month or $60/year. Send money to:
Cyberspace Communications
P. O. Box 4432
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-4432
If you pay by cash or money order, please include a photocopy of some form of
ID. I can't add you to the rolls without ID. (If you pay with a personal
check that has your name pre-printed on it, we consider that a good enough
ID.) Type !support or see http://www.cyberspace.org/member.html for more
info.
|
| 72 responses total. |
jep
|
|
response 1 of 72:
|
Oct 3 03:50 UTC 2002 |
I wonder if it's time to think about increasing the price of membership.
|
devnull
|
|
response 2 of 72:
|
Oct 3 04:09 UTC 2002 |
I think I would be unhappy about increased membership dues. I see little
evidence that giving grex more of my money would result in grex being better
for me or for anyone else.
If you came up with a proposal, which, for example, wanted to raise dues by
a certain amount to pay for colo, I might be in favor of that (although I have
my doubts that paying for colo could be accomplished by raising dues by
a couple dollars a month). But without a good explaination of what it's
going to do other than inflate grex's bank account, I'm skeptical it's a good
idea.
|
devnull
|
|
response 3 of 72:
|
Oct 3 04:16 UTC 2002 |
I'm not sure I like seeing the accounting of the cafepress stuff mixed
in with the other grex store stuff.
The impression I get is that the reason to want to account for the grex
store specially is because historically, it has bought large quantities of
stuff all at once at wholesale price, and then eventually sold the items a
little at a time. If you end up with inventory that isn't selling, this
doesn't make you as much money as you wish it might, and accounting for
the grex store seprately helps people to understand what's going on.
Cafepress is different, in that it basically just generates income, except
when it doesn't.
Having each monthly report include both the balance of the traditional grex
store and the cafepress balance might also be appropriate, though. It's
possible to lose money with cafepress if months go by in which nothing is sold,
and it would be nice to keep the big picture in perspective when that happens.
(Also, it isn't necessarily the case that grex t-shirts have to make money.
It would be valid for the membership to decide to subsidize t-shirts, although
I get the impression that people probably don't want to subsidize t-shirts,
and that's not an unreasonable decision either.)
|
jmsaul
|
|
response 4 of 72:
|
Oct 3 12:13 UTC 2002 |
Re #2: You wouldn't have to raise the rates to pay for colo. There are
colo options that are much cheaper than what Grex is paying to
rent the Pumpkin.
|
gull
|
|
response 5 of 72:
|
Oct 3 14:10 UTC 2002 |
Re #4: But there'd be expenses incurred in making the move, such as new
hardware, phone line moves, etc.
|
dpc
|
|
response 6 of 72:
|
Oct 3 15:12 UTC 2002 |
Those would be only one-time moving exenses, gull. I think colo
would save us a bunch of money in the medium and long run, and
would stop the financial bleeding.
|
mary
|
|
response 7 of 72:
|
Oct 3 15:19 UTC 2002 |
Our rent is somewhere around $60 per month. What would colo space
cost us? Just an approximate?
|
aruba
|
|
response 8 of 72:
|
Oct 3 16:12 UTC 2002 |
Re #4: The Grex store bought shirts exactly once, in the fall of 1997.
I'm inclined to stop reporting it at all, since that stuff has basically
stopped selling. Unless, that is, we buy another big batch of shirts to
keep on hand.
I think the report is complicated enough without having separate tallies
for "stuff we have on hand" and "money from CafePress". I don't want to
have to answer the question about what that means every few months. But
if people feel strongly about it, I am flexible.
How is it possible to lose money on CafePress? They don't have any way to
take money from us. I just skimmed the member agreement, and I can't find
anything about us having to pay them anything under any circumstances. It
does say that if 6 months go by without at least $10 in accrued credits,
then we forfeit anything that *did* accrue. (They always wait until there
is at least a $10 credit before sending a check.) Maybe that's what you
meant. We don't lose money, we just don't get a small amount that we
should have.
|
other
|
|
response 9 of 72:
|
Oct 3 16:20 UTC 2002 |
We should consider writing off the balance of the Grex Store inventory
and using it as promotional items.
|
cross
|
|
response 10 of 72:
|
Oct 3 16:25 UTC 2002 |
Regarding #7; Just considering rent isn't sufficient; you also have to look
at connectivity costs, power costs, A/C and other environmental costs, as
well as the cost of access, backups, etc. I think that just about any way
you look at it, colo would reduce grex's total costs.
This has been discussed before, in another thread. I am in the camp of
those who think that the best solution is to have grex reduce costs, not
charge more for membership.
|
gull
|
|
response 11 of 72:
|
Oct 3 16:36 UTC 2002 |
I would assume access and backup costs would go up for a colo, at least if
you counted staff time as a cost.
On the other hand, our insurance costs might go down.
I think a big issue for us is our volunteer staff. A colo with an "one
designated person only and no after-hours access" policy would be no good at
all for us, and while I've never dealt with a colo I've gotten the
impression policies like that are common.
|
other
|
|
response 12 of 72:
|
Oct 3 22:52 UTC 2002 |
We should have a serious discussion in which we identify and succinctly
list our concerns relating to colocation, and then we can address them
specifically when researching possible solutions.
I think that would be the only prudent and responsible way to address the
suggestion of colocation as a solution to our current decline (which, I
might add, is definitely not a crisis yet, so don't get all worked up
again, please).
|
jmsaul
|
|
response 13 of 72:
|
Oct 3 23:31 UTC 2002 |
I spoke carelessly in #4 -- I meant that colo would be cheaper than what Grex
is paying to rent the Pumpkin, maintain phone lines, and maintain its own
high-speed connection. The rent is only part of the expense you could ditch
by going colo. Sorry.
|
other
|
|
response 14 of 72:
|
Oct 4 03:16 UTC 2002 |
The board voted this evening to drop one phone line. We may drop more after
determining the effect of doing so in re our centrex contract.
|
aruba
|
|
response 15 of 72:
|
Oct 4 13:40 UTC 2002 |
I called and had Ameritech drop one phone line (761-2517). According to the
person on the phone, we are now at the minimum number of lines allowed by
our centrex contract.
|
cross
|
|
response 16 of 72:
|
Oct 4 19:35 UTC 2002 |
Regarding #11; Yes, you are correct. I was trying to imply that access
and backups costs might go up, but clearly I failed. My point was that
net costs are likely to go down as a result of grex using a colocation
facility, even given an increase in staff costs.
Regarding #12; I'm in total agreement. A lot of FUD has been spread
around about colocation, and it's probably been overhyped by the other
side, too. Doing some research and looking carefully at it would be
prudent.
|
janc
|
|
response 17 of 72:
|
Oct 4 20:13 UTC 2002 |
I also think a good co-location site would be something worth looking
for. I'd like to see the next generation of Grex hardware be something
that could reasonably be put in a co-lo location.
|
jmsaul
|
|
response 18 of 72:
|
Oct 4 21:16 UTC 2002 |
Wow. Both of the Forbidden Suggestions in one.
|
jep
|
|
response 19 of 72:
|
Oct 4 22:19 UTC 2002 |
It might be worthwhile for someone to think about how to come about
making such decisions. There are two heavily entrenched camps, some of
each side of whom are convinced the other is unreasonable. As things
stand, Grex might remain as it is for quite a while from inertia, with
no general support for moving in any direction. I have no input for
how to achieve a consensus, but maybe someone knows how to resolve such
things.
|
janc
|
|
response 20 of 72:
|
Oct 5 15:37 UTC 2002 |
I have faith that in time good sense will prevail. I'm not absolutely
sure that that means I will be proven right.
|
cross
|
|
response 21 of 72:
|
Oct 5 21:29 UTC 2002 |
Interesting datapoint: Grex went down today, according to /etc/motd, this
was due to power problems. It's likely that wouldn't have happened had
grex been in a colo facility.
|
scott
|
|
response 22 of 72:
|
Oct 5 22:20 UTC 2002 |
Depends. Wasn't M-Net off the net a day or two ago when WWNet got cut off?
|
janc
|
|
response 23 of 72:
|
Oct 5 22:37 UTC 2002 |
Yeah, they said wwnet lost power. Not too impressive. Co-location
facilities come in all grades. I doubt if Grex would be able to afford
a very good one. I think we should seriously investigate co-location as
an option, but it isn't obvious to me that we'll find anything good
enough that we can afford.
|
mary
|
|
response 24 of 72:
|
Oct 6 13:35 UTC 2002 |
What's available in the area, anyone know names so some calls
can be made?
|