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Grex > Coop11 > #99: Minutes of the May 24, 1999 Meeting of the Grex Board | |
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janc
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Minutes of the May 24, 1999 Meeting of the Grex Board
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May 25 16:06 UTC 1999 |
Cyberspace Communications
May 1999 - Board of Director's Meeting
Minutes
Presiding: John Remmers (remmers)
Recording: Jan Wolter (janc)
Other Board Members:
Mark Conger (aruba)
Dan Gryniewicz (dang)
Scott Helmke (scott)
Steve Andre (steve) [arrived late]
Misti Tucker (mta) [arrived late]
Members of the Public:
Glenda Andre (glenda)
Andrew Lanagan (drew)
Jennifer Kriegel (jiffer)
Arlo Mates (arlo)
Valerie Mates (valerie)
Mary Remmers (mary)
Dan Romanchik (danr)
AGENDA ITEM 15779: Gavel Banging
- At 7:09pm, John Remmers banged <BANG><BANG><BANG>.
AGENDA ITEM 621: Chairman's Report
- John Remmers reported that he has reserved the kids room at Zingermans
for board meetings on the fourth Mondays of July and August, but could
not get it for June.
- Board agreed to meet at an alternate location in June - probably at the
Michigan Union.
AGENDA ITEM 16154: Treasurer's Report
- Mark Conger presented the monthly treasurer's report for April. The
full report is available on-line in coop item 93.
* April was our fifth consecutive month in the black, which is
especially good because it isn't usually a good month.
Total Income: $836.25
Total Expenses: $489.30
New Members: 3
- Mark Conger presented a preliminary report for May. So far, May looks
less spectacular, but will probably come out in the black just because
we don't have to pay a phone bill next month (because of Ameritech
rebating our past taxes):
Income to Date: $343.00
- Mark Conger presented the current status of the auction:
* More items have been paid for and delivered
Open Items 3
Closed, Unpaid Items 4 $32.00 (these won't be paid for)
Paid, Undelivered Items 22 $424.00
Delivered Items 220 $1376.76
--- --------
Total Auction Income $1800.76
* The last "deadbeat" paid up. This is all the money we are going to
get from the auction.
* Thanks to Mark for his efforts in collecting all this money, and his
continuing efforts to see that all the items get delivered. (I forgot
to say this during the meeting.)
- Mark Conger took the opportunity to remind several people present about
undelivered auction items. General discussion broke out. John Remmers
pounded <BANG><BANG>.
AGENDA ITEM 420012: Publicity Committee Report
- Misti Tucker, the Publicity Czar, was not present yet. No one else had
anything to say.
AGENDA ITEM 10920320: Technical Committee Report
- Valerie Mates reported a continued steady flow of vandals, including
one persistent fork bomber. Staff and robocop are coping.
- Scott Helmke says lots of people are using Grex to make http attacks on
other systems. We don't allow outgoing telnet partly because we want
to discourage people from using Grex as a platform from which to attack
other systems, but http is being steadily abused this way. Staff really
doesn't want to limit web access from Grex. There seems no simple way
to even detect these kinds of things reliably on Grex. About the only
thing that could be done would be to develop a very smart firewall that
monitors outgoing http requests for things that look like attacks on
other systems. This doesn't seem practical at this time.
- Valerie Mates says that there have been some problems with disks filling
up.
Discussion of the UPS was postponed since STeve Andre was not yet present.
Jennifer Kriegel arrived, and helped to alleviate a chair shortage. John
Remmers pounded out a <BANG><BANG><BANG><BANG><BANG>.
AGENDA ITEM 16167: Ann Arbor City Guide Listing
- John Remmers presented a proposed new wording for Grex's listing in the
Ann Arbor City Guide. Various small modifications were suggested. The
final text is:
Grex. Open-access computer system offering a wide range of discussion
forums covering topics from cooking to politics to space travel, for
people of all ages. Also offers minimal internet access. There is no
charge to use Grex, but frequent users are encouraged to become
members and participate in cooperatively running the system. Discussion
forums are accessible via Grex's website at www.cyberspace.org. To
access other services, including email and chatrooms, telnet to
cyberspace.org or have your modem dial (734) 761-3000. Users meet at
Gallup Park for a walk every Sat. 10:15 a.m. For further info, call
Dan Romanchik (734) 930-6564.
- John Remmers will send this in to the Observer.
AGENDA ITEM 420350: Credit Card Info
- Dan Gryniewicz has entered an excellent item discussion this in coop
(see item 94).
- Board members STeve Andre and Misti Tucker arrived.
- The board mainly discussed the two options that had been recommended by
Dan Gryniewicz and Dan Romanchik in the item.
Charge Solutions Plan 4:
* No monthly fee
* Per transaction fees of $0.85 + 2.50%. The 2.50% number may
have fluctuated upward.
* They provide the secure server.
* We get credit card numbers, so we can use them as ID to validate
members, and we can offer people the option of renewing there
membership without having to resubmit their credit card numbers.
* There is a $175 one-time startup fee.
* "Cyberspace Communications" appears on donor's credit card statement.
Billpoint:
* No monthly fee, no start-up fee.
* Per transaction fees of $0.40 + 3% for amounts over $7, and
$0.20 + 5.5% for lower amounts.
* They provide the secure server.
* We don't get credit card numbers, so people wanting net access
would also have to send in ID, and we couldn't do automatic
renewal.
* "Billpoint" appears on donor's credit card statement.
- The board generally felt that Charge Solutions better suited our needs.
- Motion by Mark Conger:
We authorize Dan Gryniewicz to pay up to $200 to set up a merchant
account and to gain access to a secure server so Grex can accept
credit cards.
Seconded by Scott Helmke. Motion Passed 7-0-0.
AGENDA ITEM 420025: Uninteruptable Power Supply
- Grex is now running on an Uninteruptable Power Supply (UPS) that STeve
Andre found and purchased at a Ham Swap in Ohio. It is a 1.5kVA
commercial grade UPS made by Liebert and weighing about 150 pounds.
It has been stored for a while, so the batteries may not have a full
life left. Replacement batteries typically cost about $100 for a full
set and last maybe three years.
- It has been tested and seems to work. We can probably count on it lasting
through power interruptions as long as three minutes. By replacing the
old power conditioner, it should give us good clean power, with less
wastage, and thus reduce our electric bills. No new power measurements
have been made. Scott Helmke will do this soon.
- The UPS has an ethernet port. We will probably work on developing
software to shut Grex down cleanly when we detect a longer power outage.
- Motion by Jan Wolter:
We reimburse Glenda Andre $175 for a UPS.
Seconded by Mark Conger. Motion passed 7-0-0.
- $119 of the price of the UPS will come from the UPS fund. The other $56
will be paid out of the General fund.
- Scott Helmke says Jim Deigart donated a power meter, but in his initial
tests, he hasn't been able to get it to work. Rick Green has also offered
us a power meter.
- STeve Andre says he has a source for 4M Sun SIMMs for $4 a piece. This
is a really good deal. There was some discussion of how many more SIMMs
we need.
- Motion by STeve Andre:
We authorize STeve Andre to spend up to $100 for additional memory.
Seconded by Dan Gryniewicz. Motion passed 6-0-1, Mark Conger abstaining.
AGENDA ITEM 284156816: Future Planning
- Last month we talked about having a "Future Planning Meeting". Jan Wolter
had entered a discussion item in coop. But the originally suggested time
didn't work out for people and the meeting didn't get scheduled.
- John Remmers will attempt to reschedule this meeting.
- STeve Andre says Grex needs more drive enclosures.
AGENDA ITEM 10929108: Inventory of our stuff
- Mark Conger, Jan Wolter, and Dan Gryniewicz took an inventory of items
of non-trivial value in the pumpkin. Mark will be typing it all in.
- John Remmers pounded <BANG><BANG><BANG><BANG><BANG> with his mighty gavel.
AGENDA ITEM 418660: New Business
- Shortly before the meeting, we received a letter from an ACLU attorney
asking Cyberspace Communications to be a plaintiff in a lawsuit aimed
at overturning a new Michigan law restricting speech on the internet.
Board wants to know more about the law, but is willing in principle.
Online discussion is needed. Dan Gryniewicz has entered coop item 98
for discussion of this.
- Jennifer Kriegel has been working on planning GrexStock 99. The board
denies having any say or authority in the planning of GrexStocks, but
many individuals think her idea of going to Sleep Bear Dunes is an
excellent one.
- John Remmers' gavel pounded out <BANG><BANG><BANG><BANG><BANG><BANG>.
- Mark Conger requested that the board make a policy for how to handle
cases where a board member falls behind on their dues. The bylaws
say board members must be members. The following policy was suggested:
If a board member is late paying his or her dues, the treasurer
will inform the entire board by e-mail. If he or she has still not
paid by the time the "New Business" item is reached at that meeting,
the board will consider the matter and take appropriate action. This
may include, but not be limited to, declaring a board member's seat
vacant, or holding a collection to pay the dues.
The general opinion was that allowing an extension is not an option.
Board members dues must be paid up for them to be able to serve.
John Remmers felt that since this wasn't particularly urgent (all board
members are paid up through next month), and since it had not been
discussed on-line, we shouldn't vote on this this month, so the item
was deferred.
AGENDA ITEM 418660: Gavel Cessation
- John Remmers moved, seconded and passed a motion to adjourn, and delivered
one final <BANG> of the gavel.
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| 30 responses total. |
remmers
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response 1 of 30:
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May 25 16:32 UTC 1999 |
As always, Jan has promptly posted an excellent set of minutes. Thanks.
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albaugh
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response 2 of 30:
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May 26 06:31 UTC 1999 |
Thanks to all board members! :-)
Can someone please define "http attack" and what it's intended to accomplish?
I have a sneaking suspicion what this is, but I'd like to hear from an expert.
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mdw
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response 3 of 30:
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May 26 06:57 UTC 1999 |
Hopscotch.
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scott
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response 4 of 30:
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May 26 10:58 UTC 1999 |
It's a way to exploit programs on a remote system that are both Web-oriented
and not very secure.
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aruba
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response 5 of 30:
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May 26 18:14 UTC 1999 |
THanks Jan. In the text of the proposed policy on board member dues,
"that meeting" should be "the next board meeting". (Otherwise it doesn't
make sense without the sentence you crossed out.)
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albaugh
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response 6 of 30:
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May 26 22:00 UTC 1999 |
And so the advantage of doing this from grex, even using lynx, is that
it can be done so anonymously?
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janc
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response 7 of 30:
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May 27 02:18 UTC 1999 |
Right. Most of these attacks could be launched from any computer in the
world with a web browser. People only use Grex to add another level of
indirection to the attack, in hopes that it will be harder for people to
track them down. Shutting http down on Grex wouldn't keep anyone from
being broken into.
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devnull
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response 8 of 30:
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Jun 1 04:46 UTC 1999 |
It would be possible to require everyone to go thorugh a proxy server for
web access, though I'm not sure whether this would actually help. (And
it would make things slower if the proxy server in question runs on grex
itself.)
It seems like it might be reasonable, rather than worrying about an
elaborate procedure for dealing with deliquent board members, to just
define it to be the case that you have to be a member to be elected,
but once you are elected as a board member, you remain a board member
regardless of whether you are a member.
Is it the case that grex would have been in the black all these months
if we didn't have the massvie tax rebate on the phone bill?
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janc
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response 9 of 30:
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Jun 1 14:15 UTC 1999 |
I think next month is the first one where the rebate hits. The last
five months were natural events.
Basically, the treasurer was uncomfortable with having to create his own
procedure for handling this. He normally gives members a bit of a grace
period before turning off their member access, just to be civil. I
think he was thinking that maybe he ought to extend the same courtesy to
board members, but felt board members shouldn't be able to continue to
serve without paying at his sole discretion. But when the board
discussed it, we decided that there should be no grace periods for
eligability to operate as a board member. This simplifies the decision,
but there is still the question of how long a board member's dues can go
unpaid (thus rendering that person ineligable to vote on board motions,
etc.) before we declare the seat open and call a vote for a replacement.
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aruba
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response 10 of 30:
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Jun 1 15:42 UTC 1999 |
Jan is correct about the rebate - we were in the black without it from
December to April without it, and will be in May with it.
What Jan said about the motion regarding board members' dues is
essentially correct, too. Normally I give people a grace period in which
to renew - this results in more people renewing; there are a lot of people
who renew late, because I pester them until they do. I normally give
people 2-3 weeks grace period. (BTW, for those of you reading this and
thinking "cool! I can be late and get away with it!" (I know you're out
there) - I prefer not to have to pester people; it's really not much fun
for either side. And I get pretty annoyed when people "string me along"
by promising to pay again and again and taking forever to do it. So while
I'm a reasonable guy, I will appreciate it if you pay on time.)
Anyway, there's more at stake in the case of a board member who doesn't
pay his or her dues. While the treasurer certainly has the authority to
decide when a regular membership has expired, and to remove that person
from the membership rolls, it's rather a bigger deal to declare a board
member's seat vacant. I asked the board to either specifically grant that
power to the treasurer, or agree on a procedure for deciding the issue
itself. The proposed policy which Jan copied into the minutes was dang's
idea, reworded by me.
devnull's proposal is also a valid way of dealing with the issue.
However, Grex has almost always taken the position in the past that people
shouldn't be granted memberships for work performed, only for cash on the
barrelhead. (The only exception being that ken was granted a lifetime
membership for hosting Grex in his warehouse for its first 3.5 years).
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rcurl
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response 11 of 30:
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Jun 1 16:50 UTC 1999 |
The option "or holding a collection to pay the dues" is not valid, as the
board cannot force anyone to be a member by paying their dues. Joining a
membership-based organization is an act only an individual can validly do
for themselves. I realize that lots of people have memberships given to
them or "bought for them" in many organizations, though most of those
involve titular memberships, not ones carrying legal responsibilities and
authorities. Some people are given Grex memberships but if they don't
refuse to accept them, they have implicitly accepted membership. This is a
rather trivial matter for most memberships, which are just associated with
donations, but raise more serious questions if the person is a board or
staff member (an elected or appointed individual).
If all this seems pointless, consider buying Feiger a membership in the
NRA, and then holding him responsible for being an NRA member. Such a
membership would be solely titular, but who "pays" makes a big difference.
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scg
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response 12 of 30:
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Jun 1 18:55 UTC 1999 |
I'm assuming if a board member doesn't want to be a member, they can say so
and people won't hold the collection, or they can refuse the gift membership
that would result from the collection.
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rcurl
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response 13 of 30:
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Jun 1 19:02 UTC 1999 |
Personally, I'd not mention or suggest a collection. A primary role of a
board member in any organization is to provide support or access to
support. If a board member declined (even out of necessity, but then might
wonder how they eat, house, travel, clothe, etc) to pay dues, that's their
way to resign.
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mta
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response 14 of 30:
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Jun 1 20:09 UTC 1999 |
Re: resp:9
We already have a precedent for that number in that if a board member fails
to attend 3 meetings in a row, the seat is declared open.
How much does it matter if the board member is there but can't act?
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aruba
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response 15 of 30:
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Jun 1 21:00 UTC 1999 |
Sorry, Misti - I didn't follow that. What were you responding to?
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davel
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response 16 of 30:
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Jun 2 00:59 UTC 1999 |
(Pretty clearly it related to Jan's statement "... but there is still the
question of how long a board member's dues can go unpaid (thus rendering that
person ineligable to vote on board motions, etc.) before we declare the seat
open and call a vote for a replacement.".)
Re 11: Rane, AFAIK there is no requirement that staff people be members. In
general, they are, and there are good reasons for this practice, but I don't
think it's a requirement.
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rcurl
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response 17 of 30:
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Jun 2 05:13 UTC 1999 |
Dave, I hadn't really thought out the matter in regard to staff, so
you are quite right to question it. I withdraw that thought.
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janc
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response 18 of 30:
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Jun 2 17:24 UTC 1999 |
If a person doesn't want to continue as a board member they can resign. If
they are willing and able to continue to serve, but are so broke that they
can't come up with membership money, then of course it is possible to buy them
a gift membership. Even if we had some reason for not wanting to allow that,
then how would we know if they were paying us their own money or if someone
had slipped them $6 under the table?
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rcurl
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response 19 of 30:
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Jun 2 17:39 UTC 1999 |
As long as they took responsibility for paying their dues. We don't ask
how or where any member gets the money to pay their dues. But a board
member that has been bought?
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lilmo
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response 20 of 30:
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Jun 2 23:07 UTC 1999 |
Since it doesn't matter where the money comes from, if the member takes
responsibility for it (by accepting the membership); then take out the
"collection" clause in the proposed policy. Also, I suggest that the policy,
if a part of the bylaws, be a bit less specific about the point during the
meeting that is the hour of reckoning. Let the board decide when to bring
it up when it is an issue.
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mta
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response 21 of 30:
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Jun 2 23:17 UTC 1999 |
The reason for having it be quite specific is so that no one needs to "be the
bad guy" when the time comes. It seems like a good idea to me.
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rcurl
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response 22 of 30:
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Jun 3 00:56 UTC 1999 |
If a board member's dues are not current they can't be considered 'present'
as a board member. I am on the board of an organization where the
secretary announces just before a meeting starts who is in arears on
their dues, and there is a scramble to pay. Very amusing, since they
several prior written notices.
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aruba
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response 23 of 30:
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Jun 3 03:34 UTC 1999 |
Re #20: This isn't a motion to amend the bylaws, just a motion to make a
policy. I think Misti said it very well in #21.
Re #22: I suppose we could do it that way. Sometimes people arrive late,
though, and it's common for people to pass me money during the meeting. So
I thought it would be good to give them until the end (keeping in mind that
their votes don't count if they're not paid up). Besides, if the board didn't
discuss the matter under "new business", when would they discuss it?
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rcurl
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response 24 of 30:
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Jun 3 03:46 UTC 1999 |
Discuss what matter? Whether dues are current and a board member may "sit"
is a matter of fact, and can be announced when the roll is taken. People
arriving late doesn't matter - they may not "sit" as board members until
their dues are paid. Do you mean, when should the vacancy be filled? In
new business. But this is all theory. There is no problem to address
unless an elected member just refuses to pay dues due. Then it is clear
that there is a vacancy to fill. Of course, vacancies don't *have* to be
filled when they arise - or ever for that matter. That's up to the board.
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