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ryan
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Party Bots - srihai and such
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Feb 22 22:15 UTC 1999 |
This item has been erased.
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| 39 responses total. |
scg
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response 1 of 39:
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Feb 22 23:50 UTC 1999 |
It sounds like a neat idea. However, one of the things I really like about
having two separate systems is that if I don't like what's going on on one
I can go over to the other, and this might well make that ability go away.
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devnull
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response 2 of 39:
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Feb 23 03:04 UTC 1999 |
The IRC networks try to be large, linked realtime chat systems. If you want
to be able to talk to people everywhere, irc does a better job of linking
everything than what you are proposing, I think.
I don't use irc much; I find the s/n noise ratio to be aweful (not that I
like party any better...).
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hhsrat
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response 3 of 39:
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Feb 23 04:10 UTC 1999 |
That sounds like an interesting idea. I will say that I have (and still
do) object to the current version of srihai (or at least the most recent
version that I've seen) being a useless bot that just insults people and
wastes a tty.
What you're proposing now sounds like it would be interesting. It would
serve a useful purpose, and could liven up the party a lot on both ends.
One thing I would worry about is that Grex (not sure about M-Nut)
sometimes gets very laggy in Party. I'm not sure how the linkage would
work, but if grex is lagging and m-nut is not, then the M-nutter would
say something, other m-nutters would see it instantly, and the grex user
wouldn't see it for 3 minutes. Then Grex user would respond, and by
then the M-net people had already moved on to something else.
(that's a long, complicated scenario, but I think it is possible)
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pfv
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response 4 of 39:
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Feb 23 05:43 UTC 1999 |
It also fubars "ignore", ry...
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remmers
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response 5 of 39:
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Feb 23 13:54 UTC 1999 |
Like hhsrat, I'm not fond of the current version of srihai either,
though possibly for different reasons: cultural stereotyping. I
usually :ignore it.
But that's a separate issue from what Ryan has proposed here. It
had never occurred to me to use a bot as a party "mirror" between
two systems, but it's certainly technically feasible and presents
some interesting possibilities. Whether it's a good idea for grex
and m-net in particular is another question; I share scg's
reservation. Having the bot exist in a special reserved channel
rather than the main party channel would be one way to address
that concern.
This should really be decided by the people who use party, which
is a rather different population than the folks who hang out in
coop. I use party frequently, but not too many other coop-ers
do, and most of the people who use party don't read coop
regularly. The existence of this item should be publicized
in party; isn't there a "party motd" that could be used for
that?
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cmcgee
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response 6 of 39:
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Feb 23 15:09 UTC 1999 |
Would someone explain why this bot is ok, but other kinds of bots aren't.
Simple text, for computer semi-literates.
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steve
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response 7 of 39:
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Feb 23 16:37 UTC 1999 |
Because this bot is a "party" bot, which runs under Jan's party
program. There aren't many places that run party. Bots are usually
thought of as this IRC things (Eggdrop coming to mind instantly) which
hundreds of thousands of people around the world would like to run.
A party bot is rare enough; in the 8 years we've been here we've
had essentially one bot (maybe two?). There are days when I clean up
after 10 failed Eggdrop installations. Its almost never the case that
I don't clean up at least a couple.
For me, I wasn't expecting this kind of bot and see it as less
destructive (by a wide margin) than the Eggdrop type of bot.
However, its racist overtones bother me. A lot. Why wasn't the
bot programmed to look/sound/feel like a teenager in St Louis USA?
What kind of message is Grex saying to people who pass by our system
when they see it?
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pfv
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response 8 of 39:
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Feb 23 16:46 UTC 1999 |
First, they'll get "eggcited" that they have a "soulmate" that
wants to hotchat their fuzzy-butt..
Then they'll think it's got a terrible net-link..
After that.. A rare few might have the lightbulb go on..
Culminating in MAYBE realizing it's a 'bot. The better chance
is that the two will have a serious relationship & gibber at
each other for a long while.
You forgot it was a "xenophobic" bot, too.
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other
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response 9 of 39:
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Feb 23 19:24 UTC 1999 |
ryan, you could add a line to srihai's output advertising this discussion
item... or any other conferencing concepts...
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steve
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response 10 of 39:
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Feb 23 19:31 UTC 1999 |
So party is now part quiz, and its participants are now supposed
to guess if they're talking to a real entity or not?
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dang
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response 11 of 39:
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Feb 23 21:32 UTC 1999 |
I personally have no problem with at least trying this idea. I think
it's a really neat idea. Maybe we can have a permanent channel on each
computer that is to be connected via some bot like this? That way,
people could talk in that channel if they wanted connection, but
wouldn't have to be connected.
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janc
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response 12 of 39:
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Feb 23 21:46 UTC 1999 |
On "eggdrop" bots VS. ryan's bot:
Eggdrop, and other IRC bots, are programs that people want to leave
running on Grex 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They maintain a
connection to IRC and do various pointless things in IRC channels.
Lots of people are looking desparately for a place to run their
eggdrop bots for free. If we let people do this, we'd have thousands
of them running on Grex in no time, and running all the time, not
just when their owners are logged on. The reason Grex can handle
26,000 users is that most of them aren't on at any given time.
Things like "eggdrop" programs are always on, and thus a big problem.
Ryan's bot doesn't run on Grex. It runs on his computer, which logs
into Grex and runs the party program. It does use up a tty and does
run a party process on Grex. If thousands of users wanted to run
bots like Srihai in Grex's party, we'd probaly have to make a rule
against it. As long as it is just one user, and it is someone who
understands that he shouldn't be running it if there is a telnet
queue, then OK.
I too would prefer if srihai's name were less ethnic, but aside from
that I thought it was rather funny.
The whole party link thing would be a bit different. The real question
here is "would we like the party channels linked?" I think it might be
kind of fun, but I'm not sure I'd start out by linking the main
channels. Maybe link a different channel?
From a resource use question, this doesn't really use much net bandwidth
or CPU time on Grex, so I don't think that is an issue. It uses a pty,
but we could increase the pty count by one to compensate. Resource
issues shouldn't stop us here.
I'm not sure this is the right way to build a party link. Might be
better to do something that runs on Grex and/or M-net, not on Ryans
computer. A pair of partylinkd's that connect via TCP. And it should
read/write directly to the party log files, not run the party program.
So instead of saying:
linkbot: [ryan@m-net]: greetings
It would say
ryan@m-net: greetings
That way you could ignore "ryan@m-net". Of course all this would work
even better if we rewrote party on a client-server model.
But technical details aside, this sounds like a fun thing to try, and I
think we ought to be willing to allow it.
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dang
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response 13 of 39:
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Feb 23 22:05 UTC 1999 |
Client-server party would be all fine and good, as long as we only
allowed clients on grex. Otherwise, we're trying to replace IRC.
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pfv
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response 14 of 39:
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Feb 24 06:03 UTC 1999 |
First:
>So party is now part quiz, and its participants are now supposed
>to guess if they're talking to a real entity or not?
Why not? They already have to suffer the twits - typically ForNat
that insist they are female when they are actually male.. You
have a point there? Like, perhaps the users should be able to
pass a Turing Test..? This is a Bad Thing (tm)?????
Second:
If janc's 'Party' can replace IRC, more power to him.. Feature for
feature, I suspect party may have serious advantages: for one
thing, you don't need sixty-umtidump-billion "shields" up to fend
off all the abuses particular to IRC.. For another, it's
semi-persistent.
As far as the linkage: that's fine with me, but that leader suggested
above is just silly.. Something akin to:
<dufusname>@<systemname> might work best, but the columnization and
wrapping might suffer, too.
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janc
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response 15 of 39:
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Feb 24 16:54 UTC 1999 |
Party occupies a very different niche than IRC. It isn't competition.
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pfv
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response 16 of 39:
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Feb 24 17:35 UTC 1999 |
I understand that, Jan.. I suspect others don't.
I still don't miss IRC.
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dang
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response 17 of 39:
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Feb 24 18:23 UTC 1999 |
resp:15 I know that too, but if you make it client server, and allow
connects from anywhere, you're starting to move into IRC's niche.
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krj
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response 18 of 39:
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Feb 24 18:34 UTC 1999 |
To answer two questions from Steve:
> Why wasn't the
> bot programmed to look/sound/feel like a teenager in St Louis USA?
Because a teenager in St. Louis would have a much better command
of English; it's much easier to mimic a limited subset of the
language.
> So party is now part quiz, and its participants are now supposed
> to guess if they're talking to a real entity or not?
Heh. Think of it as an opportunity for ryan to develop and show off
his design and programming skills. It's been interesting to watch
srihai develop. I used to be able to trip srihai up pretty easily
to demonstrate to others in party that he was a bot, but ryan's
made that a lot harder recently.
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dpc
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response 19 of 39:
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Feb 24 20:13 UTC 1999 |
I think #0 is a *fine* idea! I can't speak for all of M-Net's Board
or its users, but I'd personally like to see this idea explored
further.
Since most of the comments here are positive, would ryan
be willing to enter an item in the M-Net Policy Conference explaining
the idea?
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dpc
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response 20 of 39:
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Mar 6 16:10 UTC 1999 |
See now Item 168 in the M-Net Policy Conference about this linkbot
idea. I've posted a motion for the M-Net Board approving this
idea in principle. We should act on this on March 15. If you're
interested in this, please come to the meeting, which will be
at 8:00 p.m. in the South Conference Room of the NEW Center,
1100 N. Main, AA.
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mary
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response 21 of 39:
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Mar 6 19:49 UTC 1999 |
Yuck. The MOTD is way too overused. I don't even read
it anymore except on demand, my demand. I bet more
and more folks are doing the same, or would be if
they knew how.
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pfv
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response 22 of 39:
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Mar 6 20:15 UTC 1999 |
been so on mnut for years. <shrug>
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pthomas
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response 23 of 39:
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Mar 8 00:22 UTC 1999 |
As I've said on M-Net, this is a good idea if the bot were to occupy a
seperate channel in party. Users should not be dumped into said channel
when starting party.
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pfv
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response 24 of 39:
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Mar 8 17:51 UTC 1999 |
best yet: let the echo keep "dual-users" isolated in their
"togetherness"..
Not sure its a grand idea, but a 6mo test-period sounds
reasonable.
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