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steve
STeve Andre's longer campaign statement Mark Unseen   Dec 1 07:38 UTC 1998

Hello!  Thank you for looking at the "long" version of this.  Grex is
complex enough that I simply can't talk about it in just a few lines.
Below is the "short" version:

|Hi.  This is STeve Andre'; I'm one of the eight or so people running for the
|Grex board this time around.  I'm one of the staff that help keep the system
|running, and one of the twelve people who started Grex, back in 1991.  I was
|on the board from 1992 to 1996. 
|
|This is the "short" version of my campaign statement.  Being the gasbag that
|I am, I can't possibly put my thoughts and feelings of Grex and why I'm once
|again running for board into 22 lines.  The long version is in ~steve/yak as
|well as http://cyberspace.org/~steve and in item XX in the coop
conference. |[Note: not ready yet!] | |Grex is seven years old now--positively
ancient in the world of cyberspace. |In every dimension possible we've grown
amazingly and are still growing |today.  There are a very few systems like Grex
anywhere in the world, and I'm |proud to be a part of it.  Little did I know
that what I've often refered to |as my "third child" would be known the world
over with users from more than |124 countries.  But because we've done well in
the past doesn't mean we can |rest--we have new challenges facing us, from
dealing with our popularity, to |the ever-changing technology, and better ways
to provide our services to |people.  I'd like to take on the challange of being
on the board again, if |the community thinks I'd be a good candidate.  Read the
long version. ;-)

Now for the longer version...

Grex is a really cool thing, I think.  Back in 1991 the twelve "founders"
had only a hope that Grex might be successful.  I think we succeeded,
probably beyond most of our expectations, but just because we've done OK
up to now doesn't mean our fortunes can't change.  Technology roars along
and what was relevant even a few years ago often seems old fashioned
today.  Grex has done a fairly good job of keeping up over the years, but
we're going to have to keep changing, in order to continue to be the
thriving system it is today.  Here are some of the changes I think Grex is
going to have to seriously consider and some of the issues we face:

 - PPP on the dialin modems.  Many people today don't understand what
   it means to 'dial into a system'(!).  As incredible as that is to us
   BBS folks, there are a TON of people out there today who use computers
   who simply don't have the knowledge to make a terminal connection to
   Grex.  By being able to handle PPP connections to Grex, a user could
   use Netscape to read conferences, Eudora to fetch mail, just as they
   would if they were on the net, wandering around.  This isn't a trivial
   task technically, but neither is it gigantic.  The impact on Grex will
   be as important as our getting on the Internet was, I predict.

 - A better ("fatter") Internet connection.  Right now, Grex's connection
   to the net, as good as it is, is going to be overtaxed in 1999.  As
   it currently stands people can't have graphical web pages here because
   we don't have the net bandwidth to allow for this.  Back several years
   ago we got by with a 28K modem connection.  Today we're doing all right
   with a 128K connection, but that isn't going to last much into next
   year, given the continual rise in usage.  Getting a faster connection
   isn't going to be easy however, and is going to take some considerable
   amount of talking with organizations/entities, until we find one that
   is willing to let us have such a connection for free, or nearly so.  I
   say free, because we're likely to have to spend more money on the
   physical connection.

 - Better local advertising of ourselves.  We've had the services of a
   professional technical writer for years now (Misti Tucker, currently
   on the board), but as an organization Grex hasn't really made a 
   serious effort to reach out to the local community and inform people
   of what Grex is.  Misti directed the still-running Grex video on the
   local community access channel but we can do more.  Some things that
   we might want to consider are:

   + Talks on Grex, for the newcommer.  A "Grex 101" class, covering the
     basics that confuse people.  I will bet that what the first attendees
     say are the confusing parts are likely not what we think they are,
     but thats fine: we need to get that feedback from the technically
     shy.

   + Get the kids who use Grex to talk about Grex among their friends.
     This has happened already, but it would be good if we could have
     pamphlets and such for our younger users to hand out to others, and
     to talk with the current kids about things like getting help on Grex,
     and how Grex is poor and could use even *tiny* donations. ;-)

   + Continue the tradition of Misti's video, and work on something a
     little longer, explaining what conferencing is, etc.

   + Wrangling more press coverage about Grex, and having a stock
     "propaganda" press kit and web page for those people who are
     accustomed to these things.

 - Increased "begging" on the net and elsewhere for surplus equipment.
   Grex jumped off it's Sun-2 computer to it's Sun-3, because a local
   defense company heard of Grex, and decided the zero-book value Sun-3's
   they had sitting in a warehouse had more value to an organization
   like us than the cement floor they sat on.  Jumping to the Sun-3
   system was our first quantum leap, and let us do more of all the
   things we wanted to do.  I think that with a little effort on our
   part to let people know that we're still "bottomfeeders" of technology,
   we might get some interesting offers of equipment.  It can't hurt to
   try--all people can do is laugh at us, but we might get some nifty
   things out of it!

 - A litle better at asking for money from our users.  *I* *DO* *NOT*
   *GREX* *TO* *CONSTANTLY* *BEG* *FOR* *MONEY*.

   I hope I've made myself clear here.  Grex was founded on open access
   principals, and I believe in them wholeheartedly.  But at the same
   time, I'd like to see if there is a way in which we can let people
   know that Grex really does cost money--a lot of money--to keep running
   every month.  As it stands, we're about as laid back as you can get,
   in terms of asking for money.  I'd like to see Grex send one (probably
   even two is too much) piece of mail to users who've stuck around for
   a while, just to let them know that we really could use some help out
   for our bills and expansion.

   However, if we can't do this without sounding like a whining whale,
   I'd as soon drop it.  One of the coolest ideas behind Grex I think,
   is the free and open access foundation upon which it rests on.  I do
   not ever want to change that. 

   Along these lines, I think that Grex needs to be able to accept
   credit cards.  This is a change of mind for me personally, but as
   technology changes, so must Grex.  It feels to me like we could get
   enough people willing to join via credit card to cover the costs of
   being able to allow this, but we need to look the matter over more.
   An interesting side effect of this would be the likely increase of
   members from other countries, as the ease factor in being able to
   give a string of numbers in (secure) email has a powerful positive
   effect on getting people to dontate money.

 - Thanks to the wonderful efforts of Jan Wolter and others, Grex has
   a powerful tool to use, namely our 501(c)(3) status which if properly
   used could get us things that we'd not likely be able to get, on our
   own.  But with that tool comes management issues on how not to mis-use
   it, which is extremely important.  I think we can use this to our
   advantage, as long as we're careful with it.

 - Grex usage is such that today in November 1998, as many new accounts
   are taken out every two days as in *all* of 1991.  This growth has
   been nothing less than incredible, both in terms of our popularity,
   and our ability to keep up and manage it.  I routinely get open
   mouthed stares from computer professionals who learn of the ah,
   "lean" staffing that Grex has, compared to it's size.  This growth
   presents interesting challenges to us as a community, as our system
   has never been used by so many for as many different purposes as now.
   Can Grex maintain its general nature, or are we going to have to 
   decide that there are things we should focus on, and work on those
   aspects of Grex the most?  

   It is very nearly surreal to me, how many people have heard of Grex
   and in how many different ways.  It's no secret that India has an
   enormous presence on Grex (the largest non-American user contingent),
   but that will be overshadowed as China slowly wakes to the net.
   Within the next three years Grex will be known by literally millions
   of people (If you doubt this, keep this file in a safe place and
   we'll talk then).  When you consider the friendly nature of Grex
   and the sheer numbers of people who have yet to get on the Internet,
   it is a mind boggling proposition.

   However--and this is the important part--I don't think Grex's interests
   are best served by trying to close things, or make us less accessable.
   I think Grex will be best served by rising to the challange of an
   increasing user base, and to figure out how to accomodate as many
   users as technically and socially possible.  Can we do this?  Yes, I
   think so.  We can look forward with fear, or we can be creative.  I
   prefer the latter!

Obviously we can't do everything overnight, or we'd have done much of
this already.  The point I'd like to make here is that Grex has done
a wonderful job of taking a little money and old tired computing
technology, and making something... well, magic.

I don't think magic is too strong a word, either.  Take a look out
there on the net and look for systems as open as Grex is, and as liberal
with its resources as we are.

There aren't many.  We in the Ann Arbor area have had an incredible
and wonderful history of comuter conferencing, starting with Dr.
Robert Parnes Confer II software which ran on the old UM MTS mainframe,
which led to Mike Myers and Marcus Watts starting up a system similar
in concept (M-Net), back in a time when computers were rather more costly
than they are today.

Grex is a part of this heritage, and I'm really proud to have been a
part of all this.  I'd like to see more systems like Grex around the
world, but all we can do is to provide an example. To show that an open
system-- one that offers services that many security "experts" say can't
be done--can still be reasonably secure, and whats more, fun.  To me,
Grex embodies the philosophy of generosity and friendship, cooperation
and some real-world savvy that matches my own feelings about life.

I hope I've conveyed my feelings about Grex in this item.  If people
like what I've said then perhaps I'll be elected.  But if not elected,
I'll still be serving in the capacity of a staff person, and won't
slink away with my feelings hurt.  There are *good* people out there
running for the board this time around.  I'm truely glad to see so many
people running, for it indicates that people care about Grex, which is
all to the good.

Thanks for listening

--STeve
20 responses total.
devnull
response 1 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 10:37 UTC 1998

I hope that if grex does decide to accept credit cards in the future,
people will be clearly informed that grex will get to keep more moeny
if people pay by check rather than by credit card (unless the rate structures
are vastly different than what I think they are).

Unless things have changed since the credit card debate I saw a few months
ago, I suspect that supporting credit cards is likely to be a net loss.
Grex should only take credit cards if there is a consensus that people feel
confident that grex won't lose money as a result of doing this.
steve
response 2 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 12:15 UTC 1998

   It feels to me that there are enough people who'd pay by credit
card who might otherwise not, that its a win for us.  This is even
more true for people outside the US.  But yes, you're right, we should
tell people about the costs to us.
rcurl
response 3 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 15:46 UTC 1998

How about promoting automatic on-line electronic funds transfer to pay
dues? Is Grex set up to accept that? I could just enter my annual
dues payment into my Bill Payer account and no reminders would be
needed. This would also save time and trouble for monthly donators. 
aruba
response 4 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 15:54 UTC 1998

Re #1,2: But the fact is that if we get a deal like the one danr described
a while back, it won't cost us more when people pay by credit card, unless
we pass a threshhold we're unlikely ever to pass.  (Maybe once in a great
while.)  So essentially we will be paying a flat rate to accept credit
cards - approximately $30/month, if I remember correctly and we get the
same deal Dan has.  That's 5 or 6 memberships worth; we'd need to get that
many new members to make it worthwhile.  That may not seem like a lot, but
remember we've been stuck at right around 100 members for a long time now
(about 4 years). 

So the question is whether we will get at least 5 or 6 new members because
we accept credit cards.  Based on requests I get, I'd bet we don't, at
least not in the first year.  But I would be happy to eat those words if
they turn out to be wrong.  Depending on what the startup costs are, I'd
be willing to try it out for a year. 
aruba
response 5 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 15:55 UTC 1998

Re #3:  (Rane slipped in)  No, we are not set up to do that now.  I don't know
what it would take.
steve
response 6 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 19:16 UTC 1998

   I think Mark, with a little luck we can make a cake for you at some 
board meeting.  
   I say this because of the convienance factor here; a lot of people are
so used to using plastic for things, that they are significantly less
inclined to cough up money otherwise.  I know a woman in Detroit who helps
with a charity which takes clothes food and cash to distribute.  They
didn't take plastic until recently, but when they did they found that it
was worth it.  I'm thinking that the people who look at us and think we're
kinda neat might be more willing to donate if its *easy*.  These days,
a checkbook doesn't seem as easy as plastic.  Weird, but true for a lot of
people.
jep
response 7 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 20:07 UTC 1998

A check takes a stamp, an envelope, and a trip to the mailbox, drop box 
or post office.  We have stamps in our house, I know we do -- but I 
don't know where.  

I postponed becoming a member from August until sometime in November, 
when I went to aruba's house to pick up an auction item and pay him for 
it.  If you were waiting for me to have an envelope and stamp, you still 
wouldn't have my money.  If I could have whipped out my wallet and typed 
in a credit card number, which I can do any time while I'm at my desk 
avoiding work, I'd have been a member in August.
rcurl
response 8 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 20:28 UTC 1998

Further to #3: the more I think about it, the  better seems the idea. The
European "check" system is the Giro draft, which is an order to your bank
to pay your creditor's bank. This is creeping in here via on-line
banking. It might be possible for people all over to just direct their
bank to transfer $$$ to Grex's bank. Maybe  some inquiries to foreign
users of Grex would determine the feasibiity of this. 
aruba
response 9 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 10 23:48 UTC 1998

Assuming someone pays this way, does the bank tell us who it was?  In other
words, if two people set up to pay by direct deposit, and we receive a payment
from one of them, does the bank give us enough info to figure out which one?
Does their name appear on the bank statement, or something like that?
mta
response 10 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 11 00:40 UTC 1998

It would have to if businesses ever use it...but aside from common sense, I
don't know.
rtg
response 11 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 11 03:47 UTC 1998

I would suggest a minimum amount for each Credit(or debit) card
transaction, so we don't inflate our transaction count with people who
want us to charge them every month for just $6. If we got just one annual
renewal every two months, our costs are covered.  My guess is we'll get
much more than that.
  I volunteered a few months ago for WDET's pledge drive.  I was
astonished to discover that 80-90% of the calls I took, paid immediately
via plastic.  No wonder they can get by with only two drives a year, and
shorter ones, too!  Think of what they're saving on postage and clerical
staff to issue and process all those monthly pledge reminders!
  With our 501c3, I bet if we had the capability to accept donations via
plastic, our phones would be ringing off the hook on New Year's eve from
people looking desperately for one more deduction!

  Let's move on this soon!
i
response 12 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 12 17:21 UTC 1998

Hmmm.  How many volunteers do we have to man what voice line phones to
take donations on New Year's Eve?  :)

More seriously, there are a number of non-trivial security issues involved
in taking credit cards.  What media do we accept them through (voice phone,
mail, e-mail, web/unsecured, web/secure, etc.)?  What verification steps
do we use?  What security might a bank (or whatever) want to give us a
merchant account?  (I'm not familiar with the $30/month deal mentioned 
above - hopefully it's less restrictive than your average bank.)

Do we need the extra $$$ that credit card donations would bring in more
than the staff time that credit card processing would cost us?
steve
response 13 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 12 18:00 UTC 1998

   Well, we're about paying our bills right now, but fundraisers are
needed to pay what the membership doesn't, and pays for things like
part of the hardware we've bought recently.  So I'd say that we really
could use the extra memebrs.  If we could double our membership we'd
be able to do more, etc.  I'm not saying that plastic will double our
membership but it would help.
rcurl
response 14 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 12 18:41 UTC 1998

I think I'll just ask my bank to establish an online vendor account for
Grex. I need a phone number, though, as they call to set up the payment
procedure with a vendor. 
aruba
response 15 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 13 04:31 UTC 1998

A phone number for whom, Rane?
rcurl
response 16 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 13 06:17 UTC 1998

For Grex ("business number" or "office" or "treasurer", or who ever
handles the accounts).
aruba
response 17 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 13 15:18 UTC 1998

You can give them my phone number (it's in my .plan).  I'm not sure if I know
the right things to  say when they call, but I guess this is a good way to
find out.
rcurl
response 18 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 13 17:47 UTC 1998

FMI, is your number answered personally or by machine (or not at all)
during "business hours"? (I do view this as a find-out exercise.)
aruba
response 19 of 20: Mark Unseen   Dec 13 21:57 UTC 1998

I am here during business hours, and I usually answer the phone.
jshafer
response 20 of 20: Mark Unseen   Jan 9 10:09 UTC 1999

I agree with JEP in RESP:7 - I'm not even sure where my checkbook is.  
But I've got that piece of plastic right here.  And yes, if grex starts 
accepting plastic, I will take advantage of it!  (I may actually get 
around to sending a check for membership, since I need to send one for 
an auction bid anyways, but don't hold your breath...)
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