October Board Meeting.

Nov 7 06:31 UTC 2000

Well, I apologize for getting thse out so late, but I've been loosing large
chunks of time in the past couple of months. I'm not sure yet where those
chunks of time go to, but I'll let you know when I do.

NOTES:

Well, to start off, Arlo *REALLY* didn't want to be at this meeting....when
he and Valerie walked into the room, he started crying.  She took him out for
a little while, and then once he was fine, brought him back in.  Instant
tears.  Repeted a couple of times, and yup, it was something about the room.
We think that it had to do with the fact that he really didn't want to sit
through a board meeting.  Can't say I blame him. ;)

Meeting commenced at 7:10, and was attended by Drew, Eric, Jan, STeve, Meg,
Greg and John.  Mary was there for a brief time also.

Chair report: Eric recieved am invitation to the Summerfest Corporate
Luncheon.

Treasurer report: We had a couple of chargebacks in September, and because
of the creditcard problems, we took in a bit less then we paid out.  Eric
Motioned "It is moved that we disconnect our service with our Credit Card
Company now, and investigate new alternatives."  Remmers seconded, and
everybody voted in favor.  PayPal is being looked into as an option.

Pblicity: Nothing

Tech Committee: STeve has gotten 2 more discs formatted, and we need another
chain on the SCSI.  The UPS can feed Grex for 4.5 minutes, and STeve thinks
that it will need a new battery in the next 18-24 months.  STeve is looking
into Tape Drives again, prices and such, and will be posting information
online (I thought in Co-op?) by October 26.  Remmers motioned "We would vote
online to authorize the purchase of the new tape drive".  Eric seconded, and
all agreed.  Our ISDN lines are gone, and we've dropped 2 phone lines.  The
recent vandels have been really stupid.

Next Meeting: November 20, 2000.  Same Bat-time, same Bat-Place.

New stuff:  Jan got info from Michael Steinberg (which he already posted) 
Board Nomination time is here!  Jan is at term limit, and Remmers & Steve are
up for re-election.

Meeting let out at 8:06.

response 2 of 32:

Nov 8 15:10 UTC 2000

Did the September minutes ever get posted?

response 4 of 32:

Nov 9 15:15 UTC 2000

Sorry, Marcus....I forgot to write it into my notes.

ADDENDUM TO MINUTES:
        At some point, fairly early in the meeting but the secretary forgets
the exact time, Marcus did wander intot he meeting also.

As for September, since I left just a day or two after the meeting for a
bizarre trip, I'm still trying to figure out what I might have done with the
notes from it.

response 6 of 32:

Nov 9 15:31 UTC 2000

I thought I posted that in these minutes?

response 8 of 32:

Nov 9 16:34 UTC 2000

Then the motd needs to be updated.

response 10 of 32:

Nov 9 17:56 UTC 2000

I amended the motd message to reference this item as well as the other one.

response 12 of 32:

Nov 14 04:37 UTC 2000

From what I've read, no, we couldn't: we were being charged fees for
fraudulent transactions, transactions we could not prevent.  Some
businesses can afford these losses; we couldn't.

response 14 of 32:

Dec 10 01:17 UTC 2000

Grex now has a PayPal account.  Actually, we've had an account for a while,
but today I was able to test it by signing up for an account myself, sending
Grex money by credit card, and transferring the money to Grex's bank account.
Looks like it works.  

To send Grex money from a credit card via PayPal:

1.  If you already have a PayPal account, go to step 4.

2.  Get a PayPal account.   Go to www.paypal.com and click the 
  prominent link, "Sign up for your FREE personal account".  Follow the 
  instructions there, entering your name, address, etc.  This will 
  involve a confirmation email from PayPal.  Eventually, you will get 
  to a Personal Account Overview screen, displaying your name, balance, 
  "Inbox", "Outbox", etc. 

3.  Tell PayPal your credit card.  To do this, click on the link in the 
   lower left corner of the account overview page, entitled "Add a 
   credit card".  Follow the instructions.  Eventually, you will be 
   returned to the account overview page. 

4.  Send Grex money.  Click on the "Send Money" tab from the top of the 
   account overview page.  Fill in the form.  Some notes on the fields:
     - the email you should send to is treasurer@cyberspace.org
     - the "Type" should probably be "Goods, non-auction".  Depending, 
       of course, on exactly what you're sending money for. 
     - "Recipient's Last Name" can be left blank. 
     - In the "Note" field, please specify what you're giving Grex money
       for, e.g. "dues for member flem".  
     - Press Continue at the bottom to go to the next page of information. 
     - In the Shipping Information area, you may or may not want to 
       check the option "This transaction does not require items to be 
       shipped".  See notes below.  (All it does is control whether or 
       not paypal includes your address in the email it sends to me.)
     - Click "Send Money" to do the deed, or "Cancel" to start over. 


Notes:
  - If you pay this way, I never get to see your credit card number.  So, 
    I can't use your credit card as ID for a new membership.  If you 
    want to become a member for the first time via credit card, 
    send mail to treasurer@cyberspace.org and we'll work something out.
      You *can* send me your address this way, via the shipping information
    I mentioned above, or just by typing it in somewhere appropriate.  
  - Looking through the help, I ran across "Web Accept":
 http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/hlp/help_global-outside#webacce
pt
    It may allow us to let people give us money without becoming PayPal
    members.  Which would make the instructions a lot simpler.  
  - Receiving money costs us 30 cents, plus 2.2% if the amount is over $15.
    Which is quite reasonable. 

response 16 of 32:

Dec 10 01:46 UTC 2000

Does PayPal do any sort of verification on the address people type in,
or do they just accept and pass it on blindly?

response 18 of 32:

Dec 10 06:23 UTC 2000

We're not the only people having problems with credit cards.  There was 
a very pessimistic article in Interactive Week a while back talking 
about all the problems on-line businesses that are accepting credit 
cards are having with fraud.  They quoted some numbers for Microsoft's 
travel service...they listed $4.1 million dollars of loss, due to 
credit card chargebacks and the like.  For comparison, their profit was 
$17 million.  That's a pretty sizable expense.

Basically, it's more of a problem for online businesses than for "brick 
and mortar" merchants because when you make a credit card purchase at a 
physical store, there's a paper trail -- a receipt with your signature 
on it.  In an online transaction there isn't, so the credit card 
company will always side with the card holder in any dispute.  The 
online merchant is left holding the bag.

response 20 of 32:

Dec 12 23:56 UTC 2000

Should there be something posted about PayPal on the motd?  (Did I miss it?
I only saw that credit cards were temporarily not working on grex.)

response 22 of 32:

Dec 13 04:05 UTC 2000

I suspect grex will be less vulnerable to fraud than a company selling
items of significant value.  Effectively, a chargeback on a membership
doesn'st mean that $60 worth of goods have been lost.

(I'm talking here about fraud with individuals claiming to want to pay
money and then managing to not pay; I'm not talking aobut companies that
give yout merchant accounts that are shoddily run.)

response 24 of 32:

Dec 14 20:28 UTC 2000

I'm really glad we're set up with PayPal!!