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Grex > Coop11 > #175: PicoSpan Documentation Fix - Scribble-family Commands | |
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i
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PicoSpan Documentation Fix - Scribble-family Commands
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Jun 1 02:52 UTC 2000 |
As cfadm, i'm starting to look at "fixing" the documentation of the
scribble family of commands in PicoSpan so that what they really do
is spelled out better. (I don't have the rights, knowledge, etc. to
make any changes at all to BackTalk.) I'm entering this item to ask
for specific, sorta-technical feedback on this process. Please don't
drift off into policy debates, X-Files trival, Bush vs. Gore, etc. in
this item.
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| 79 responses total. |
i
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response 1 of 79:
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Jun 1 02:58 UTC 2000 |
First Question: what PicoSpan (not BackTalk) commands do people know
of that give misleading or wrong information about what scribble, etc.
really do? (Purpose - i'm trying to find all the places where i need
to fix the wording.) I'm looking for responses along the lines of
"help foot-in-mouth at the PicoSpan Ok: prompt displays wrong info
about how the unsayit command works".
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jep
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response 2 of 79:
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Jun 1 15:23 UTC 2000 |
The current "help scribble" command looks very good to me. (I am the one
who first brought up the point that keeping the /bbs/censored file
readable, but not telling anyone, is deceptive.) Here's the current
wording:
**** CENSOR ****
Censor -- mark a response "censored"
Form: censor N
or scribble N
Mark a response "censored". Unless "noforget" is
specified, it will not be shown. "scribble" will
also scribble over the text (hence expunging it),
but not before it copies it to the possibly publically
readable file "/usr/bbs/censored"!
THESE COMMANDS ARE A LAST RESORT MEASURE. ITS USE
IS STRONGLY NOT RECOMMENDED. DO NOT USE!!! (see
help etiquette, and it's probably too late anyway)
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aruba
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response 3 of 79:
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Jun 1 15:57 UTC 2000 |
THe file name there is wrong - it should be /bbs/censored . (Also
"publicly" is spelled wrong and the first two sentences in capital letters
disagree on the number of commands.) I don't understand the last bit in
parentheses.
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aruba
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response 4 of 79:
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Jun 1 16:01 UTC 2000 |
For some reason, "help expurgate" doesn't give any help at all. What's up
with that?
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albaugh
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response 5 of 79:
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Jun 1 16:35 UTC 2000 |
I think something better than "don't use this command!" belongs there.
Explain when & why you'd want to use the command, and say that it should be
used sparingly, but not "DO NOT USE". Why have a command if you shouldn't
use it? You still need the "rm" command in UNIX.
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janc
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response 6 of 79:
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Jun 2 05:36 UTC 2000 |
(Actually, Walter does have the access needed to edit Backtalk help
files or any other Backtalk scripts - they are all owned by cfadm. He
could probably even figure out how to do it. But if you have specific
ideas about what to do to Backtalk, I'll readily entertain them. I
don't think we have any emergency in progress here though, so I'm kind
of inclined to wait till we have a new policy before making a lot of
changes.)
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mary
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response 7 of 79:
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Jun 2 12:25 UTC 2000 |
Is it possible, in PicoSpan and Backtalk, that when a person starts to
enter their very first item or response that they be given a warning that,
"Once text is entered in a conference there isn't a mechanism to again
remove it from public access. Think ahead and use care."?
The poster would see this warning only once. It would also put folks on
notice that should they choose to publish text here it will be published
for a very long time.
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pfv
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response 8 of 79:
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Jun 2 13:18 UTC 2000 |
Reply? r
"WARNING! You are about enter a reply. Big Brother has decreed
that all postings on Grex are Grex property. You, as an author
have no say in deleting your own material, nor any sort of
ownership/authorship rights to your post. Grex will now hold your
hand and guard your crayon-work like the adult you are, and hopes
this has made you both more Thoughtful and Mature.
Have a Joy-Joy Day!
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scott
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response 9 of 79:
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Jun 2 18:56 UTC 2000 |
Reply? r
"Warning! Despite the best efforts of a few people who don't trust
themselves or anybody else to think about what they are posting, things
here are pretty the same as they ever were."
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krj
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response 10 of 79:
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Jun 3 04:31 UTC 2000 |
I think the warning should be given every time the user enters a response.
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albaugh
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response 11 of 79:
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Jun 3 04:41 UTC 2000 |
Why not after every newline, while you're at it...
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other
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response 12 of 79:
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Jun 3 04:54 UTC 2000 |
Ok, so in 20 years of conferencing, has there ever been any warning to
responders that their responses are permanent public record and that they
should consequently think carefully before they post?
This issue has been making my head spin, (fortunately I haven't started
projectile vomiting, but I was close...) but I'm beginning to think that we
should take a careful look at what has been happening and weight it much more
heavily than our perceptions or fears of what might happen...
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gypsi
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response 13 of 79:
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Jun 3 09:22 UTC 2000 |
I'm still laughing at the warnings. =) If I had to see that every time I
hit "r", I'd go batshit crazy. Maybe it would be better in the motd or at
the conf homepage.
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i
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response 14 of 79:
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Jun 4 01:47 UTC 2000 |
<sigh>
Thank you, jep and aruba!
Re: #6 - Between being unsure how, Backtalk being your baby, changes i
make vanishing the next time you install a new Backtalk rev. here,
etc....figuring that i can't change it strikes me as the right 'tude.
Re: drifty responses - Should i assume that "help scribble" and "help
expurgate" are the *ONLY* places where PicoSpan needs to give better
or more information about how the censorship-related commands work?
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janc
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response 15 of 79:
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Jun 5 13:39 UTC 2000 |
I'm not sure how you'd put a warning message into Backtalk. The
response form normally comes up with the page. I could put the warning
message directly over the response box on every page people read (or
just once on the first page they read (BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE FIRST THE
RESPOND TO). Alternately, you could have a warning box that pops up
after you click the [POST] button. It would have a "cancel" and
"continue" button. This wouldn't be too obnoxious if it only happened
the first time you post, but it'd be a real pain if it was there
forever. I suppose it could have a "stop showing this message" checkbox
on it.
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mary
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response 16 of 79:
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Jun 5 15:03 UTC 2000 |
I'd not like to see anything shown more than once. Heck, even
the MOTD coming up with every login seems like overkill to me. ;-)
But something alongs the lines of my suggestion would make it
clear to folks that there is no "taking it back" and that
should they chose to publish here they are, indeed, agreeing
to be published here.
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cmcgee
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response 17 of 79:
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Jun 5 17:58 UTC 2000 |
There is still a motion being discussed and (eventually) voted on that may
make this set of changes moot.
If enough of us want the change, there may be a way to "take it back". How
about holding off on changes until the vote is over?
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void
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response 18 of 79:
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Jun 5 20:10 UTC 2000 |
grex does not own my text. grex does not own anyone's text. grex
does not have the right to force me to continue to publish my text if i
decide to stop its publication.
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scg
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response 19 of 79:
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Jun 5 22:27 UTC 2000 |
Out of curiosity, why would you enter text on a public bbs if you didn't want
it displayed there?
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jmsaul
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response 20 of 79:
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Jun 5 22:28 UTC 2000 |
If I screwed up, or changed my mind later when I realized a posting could
have negative effects that didn't occur to me. I wouldn't enter anything
intending to delete it later, but I'm not perfect.
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spooked
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response 21 of 79:
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Jun 6 00:11 UTC 2000 |
You do not have to delete it. You can simply add to the item saying,
sorry I made a blunder in response # x. The problem today here is people
are scared to admit they made a mistake. They just want to act as though
they never did. We all make mistakes at times, and people are forgiving
once you admit to your mistake. Hence, all this garbage about scribbling
and retracting posted messages is dumb. Such commands are censorship are
inherently troublesome, and things would be better without them completely
- as I've maintained all along.
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jmsaul
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response 22 of 79:
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Jun 6 02:40 UTC 2000 |
Things would be better if you'd stop misusing the term "censorship" to refer
to someone's voluntary removal of their own messages. If you really believe
"censorship" applies to that, then Grex's current policy encourages MORE
censorship than closing the log would, because people who know they have no
way of removing text may be afraid to enter it in the first place, thus
censoring before the fact. Censorship is when someone else gets to decide
whether your speech should be allowed or not, or intimidates you to the point
where you're afraid to speak.
As for the rest of your post: those measures are not necessarily adequate,
and I've explained why repeatedly.
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gypsi
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response 23 of 79:
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Jun 6 05:14 UTC 2000 |
Mic, I tried to enter an apology and clarification later (back in Winter
Agora), and I got my ass chewed by a few people for being "sketchy",
"lying", and "trying to get people on sides". So, obviously, it's NOT okay
to change your mind or rephrase things.
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albaugh
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response 24 of 79:
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Jun 6 07:37 UTC 2000 |
This is drift from improving help/documentation, which I'm always in
favor of, but so be it: Here is an example of something I've done
before: I posted a response to the humor item, something that someone
sent me, only to be informed that it was from Dave Barry's book or
something. That's copyright infringement, unintentional to be sure,
but something that can't be corrected by me posting a follow up
saying, "Whoops, I goofed, please don't look at what I posted in
response x." As long as the response text is out there, it can be
grabbed by anyone, sent on to others, etc., which in this example would
continue the copyright infringement.
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