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aruba
Rent Increase Mark Unseen   Aug 3 18:00 UTC 1998

Grex received a bill today from Flying Dutchman Management, for $456.00 in
back rent.  It seems they have taken over the management of the building
containing the Pumpkin (the room containing Grex).

I called them and spoke with a Ms. Susan Watrous.  We had a very strained
conversation.  Apparently Flying Dutchman is under the impression that
Marcia Van Fossen (the widow of our late landlord) raised everyone's rent
last November.  We received no notice of any such increase, and I told Ms. 
Watrous that and read her the part of our lease where it says the lease is
in effect until one party gives 4 months notice.  She asked me to mail her
a copy of the lease, and she said she will take care of removing the
past-due charges, but she said to consider this 4 months notice that the
rent will indeed be increasing from $60/month to $117/month.

So, we have to think about what we want to do.  $57/month is a hefty
increase in our monthly expenses, but it would cost us a lot to move, too.

51 responses total.
albaugh
response 1 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 18:08 UTC 1998

a) I assume that the rent won't be increased until 4 months from now
b) Gotta pay the increased rent - $720 a year is "containable".  Find out
   the term of the new rate.
scott
response 2 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 18:12 UTC 1998

That's an extreme increase.  Maybe we could do some deal with the electricity?
For that matter, is electricity (our large use of it) included in this new
rent rate?
aruba
response 3 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 18:22 UTC 1998

Re #1:  Yes, she said to consider this 4 months notice.  She is going to send 
me an official letter to that effect, however, and if it doesn't say how long
the rate is for, I will call and ask.  Thanks for pointing that out.

Re #2: No, electricity is not included.  I just sent you mail about 
measuring the electricity again, because she was quite displeased with the
news that we would be paying less for it.
keesan
response 4 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 22:16 UTC 1998

Why would it be expensive to move?  If we are considering changing phone lines
anyway, could the move coincide with changing phone lines?  Install the new
lines somewhere else before cancelling the old lines.
        Is the NEW Center available?  Some church?  A storage locker somewhere?
(Heated one).  Some other non-profit?  What does Arbornet pay?
scott
response 5 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 23:09 UTC 1998

I don't recall us talkinp about replacing all of our phone lines...?

We have 15 voice lines, plus 1 ISDN.  At $40/voice plus >$100 for ISDN, moving
*is* expensive.  Then there's the matter of finding space...
remmers
response 6 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 00:09 UTC 1998

Grex has moved twice before. Finding suitable space has been a big
hassle *every* time. I hope that we can work something out to be
able to stay where we are. But $720/year is a lot of money for us.
janc
response 7 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 01:13 UTC 1998

"Flying Dutchman Management?"  Who names a real estate management
company after someone who was cursed by God to be forever homeless?  The
name alone makes me doubt that we'll find much sanity there.

They're upset that we are using less electricity?  That's weird.

Moving cost is probably around $750.  Rent increase is $683 a year. 
Much though I dislike moving, maybe we should be looking around.
valerie
response 8 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 01:39 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

aruba
response 9 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 01:44 UTC 1998

($684, that is.)  I think we should consider the possibility of moving.  I
would like it if someone could talk this over with our landlady first, to
see if we can appeal for a break.  A 95% increase is awfully steep, and
amounts to treating us pretty shabbily, IMO.  But maybe we can strike a
deal.
scg
response 10 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 03:26 UTC 1998

Yes, the woman who owns the building seemed awfully nice the time I talked
to her, and seemed to understand our need to keep our costs down.  She even
came back an hour or two later and donated some old computer equipment.  The
management company apparrently said they think she notified everybody in the
building of the rent increase, but she didn't notify us.  Perhaps she and the
management company have miscommunicated on this.

All that aside, that space is very nice for us for a number of reasons, but
as a practical matter it is small and windowless, and in a rather dingy
building.  The new rental rate looks to me about what commercial rates in that
building would be expected to be if the space were being marketed as an
office, and not as a storage room, which it was when we rented it.  A
commercial space would be expected to include electricity, and indeed all the
other spaces in the building do, I believe.  We were paying for our own
electricity because we were using equipment that consumed more power than our
cheap storage room rent.  However, if it were an office, they would expect
us to have computer equipment.  If they're going to charge us that rate, we
should be able to make a pretty good case for including electricity.
valerie
response 11 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 03:41 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

valerie
response 12 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 17:32 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

valerie
response 13 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 17:40 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

valerie
response 14 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 17:45 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

valerie
response 15 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 20:29 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

valerie
response 16 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 21:01 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

aruba
response 17 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 4 23:42 UTC 1998

The increase was a 95% hike (from $60 to $117).  Thanks for playing all that
phone tag, Valerie.
valerie
response 18 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 00:58 UTC 1998

This response has been erased.

keesan
response 19 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 02:42 UTC 1998

Would the owner consider a different management company?
aaron
response 20 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 5 03:19 UTC 1998

Flying Dutchman is a big company. If they think the "pumpkin" is worth
$117/month, ask if they have a nook or cranny somewhere, of similar size,
which they consider to be worth less (if moving is an option). Sometimes,
shopping mall expansions create unusual or unrentable spaces here and
there.
dpc
response 21 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 02:15 UTC 1998

I'm confused about the electricity.  Since we pay for it separately,
why should Flying Dutchman care what we pay?  It's separate from rent
altogether, isn't it?
        I *really* don't think we should move.  OTOH, I was worried
from the beginning about the month-to-month nature of our lease,
aggravated by the landlord's dying.
aruba
response 22 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 02:31 UTC 1998

We pay electricity money to the landlord, not to Detroit Edison directly.
But you have a point.
mikeg
response 23 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 03:06 UTC 1998

re: the phone tag
Sounds like Flying Dutchman is trying to charge Grex's area as an office
 in which case I do agree with scg that electricity should be included
in  the lease and not charged seperately.

Re: #21 & #22
Since Grex pays to the landlord, they would probably have to take a loss
 if Grex stopped paying taxes on the electricity (since they would have 
to pay those taxes anyway, unless they become non-profit some time soon 
(not likeley)).

As I see it this is where Grex stands:
current rent:$ 720/yr
New rent    :$1404/yr
Difference  :$ 604/yr

Assuming that it costs Grex about $1000 to move, and that a location 
with a comparable rent to what we are currently paying can be found, it 
would be a better idea to move than to take the increase.

aruba
response 24 of 51: Mark Unseen   Aug 6 03:20 UTC 1998

(You made an error in subtraction, Mike - the difference is $684.)
I should call Ameritech and ask them what it would cost us to move.
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