response 1 of 79:

Apr 1 02:40 UTC 2002

I wonder if I, on the basis of one of my remote ancestors who was of 
the Mound People of the British Isles, can sue the British government 
for reparations because the Mound People were displaced by the Angles, 
Saxons and Jutes.  I still feel their pain.  It seems reasonable to me 
to assume that what should have been my traditional way of life, living 
as an aborigine on a hill near where Windsor Castle is now, was 
disrupted.

Ahem.

I think it's preposterous to sue anyone because some of your great-
grandparents suffered.

response 3 of 79:

Apr 1 03:02 UTC 2002

I'm curious about which companies have been targeted.  I think I heard
something about an insurance company that sold policies and then denied
claims; if fraud could be proved, and specific victims identified, suit would
be reasonable.

Certifying a class should be very difficult in this instance.

response 5 of 79:

Apr 1 03:44 UTC 2002

My mother used the occurrence of a particular slave's name in several
different documents to link branches of her family through four states, so
it would seem that I am the decendant of a slave-owner.  I'm not rich; I
certainly couldn't support the descendents of that slave today (assuming
George had any).  From other documents, I suspect that slave didn't live much
more poorly than the rest of the family, so I don't know that you could
convince me reparations are even necessary, in his case.

response 7 of 79:

Apr 1 08:25 UTC 2002

Ah the clever tricks a lawyer can pull.

Watch me pull all the money out of your pockets.

response 9 of 79:

Apr 1 14:15 UTC 2002

There are still problems caused by the breaking of treaties for 
American Indians, too.  Some descendants of Japanese-American families 
could make a case for an ongoing loss stemming from their round-up and 
incarceration from WW II.  Irish people were a second class at the turn 
of the 20th century.  If this lawsuit goes through, there's no telling 
where it will end.  We're probably all entitled to reparations for 
something or another.

It's impossible to correct wrongs to one's remote ancestors.  Also, 
it's unfair to target just a few companies.  The entire civilization 
had these problems; these companies were just living in the times in 
which they existed, just as we all do.

response 11 of 79:

Apr 1 14:51 UTC 2002

I do not believe any reparations are due for slavery to those living today.
What is due is a social climate that does not discriminate on the basis
of ancestry. 

response 13 of 79:

Apr 1 15:23 UTC 2002

I would not be surprised. But, given the social climate, and how long it
has been discriminatory, it is not surprising that some radical actions
are taken by some. It has a little of the flavor of the Palestinian
frustration. Can you understand some of the oppressed striking out
in not very rational ways, given the provocations?

response 15 of 79:

Apr 1 16:17 UTC 2002

        There's still a - much less slightly - stacked deck, however, due to
the institution of slavery in the past.  The change here is that nowadays we
expect an unstacked deck, a condition which has never existed throughout
recorded history, and are looking to redress the wrongs of the past that quite
simply weren't wrong when they were committed. 

        If we do redress this wrong, however, let's be fair about it and
redress other wrongs, such as the economic discrimination visited upon the
Chinese and Irish, and those families that lost potential wage-earners due
to having to fight the South.

response 17 of 79:

Apr 1 17:41 UTC 2002

#16> Does every white that is not hired because of thier color cancel on
Geroge Bush? Under Affirmative Action, many whites get passed over for job
that they're more qualified for for less-qualified blacks.
 
And where *does* it end? Can I sue businesses throughout Europe for
capitalizing from the Inquisition?
 
Let's just sue God because life isn't fair. I'll be his lawyer, and Rane can
show due shock when He actually shows up in court. ;}

response 19 of 79:

Apr 1 17:49 UTC 2002

The problem is that American culture has been sharply defined by the 
black-white issue.  That is the reason why this mention 
of "reparations" usually conjures up black Americans pushing for 
compensation for past wrongs.  While it is true that other groups have 
suffered under a repressive system--coolies from East and South Asia 
being a prime example and one of the closest examples to slavery that 
you could get--few other groups--in the US, that is--where stolen from 
their homes, and, as Scott has mentioned, stripped of their identity. 
And, yes, a few people touted as examples of greatness in no way 
compensates for the number of those struggling day by day.  Quite 
frankly I think most would be a lot happier if the Colin Powells were a 
lot more commonplace.

Having said that, there's certainly no way to redress what took place-- 
no price would be high enough if you take into account what happened 
and what consequences people suffer because of what occurred.  Putting 
a price on it cheapens it, for lack of a better way to put it.  And 
this national attention on such an issue tends to make some assume that 
every black person out there is pushing to receive reparations of some 
sort for the "wrong done to their ancestors."  Those that are suing 
are, for the most part, those that have the luxury to bitch and 
complain about their supposed lot in life, and how it is due to the 
actions of those long dead.  Those folks should pay more attention to 
the problems in their communities, give back to those that made them 
who they are, work to improve the neighborhoods they grew up in, rather 
than try to make a statement.  It is extremely doubtful that my 
ancestors, one of whom was the inspiration for Uncle Tom's Cabin, were 
hardly interested in suing for monetary compensation or even passage 
home.  Survival was much more important.  Ancestors of blacks in this 
country are the ones who deserve compensation, not the host of us in 
the here and now.

response 21 of 79:

Apr 1 21:31 UTC 2002

Very interesting observation there, brighn.  Makes a lot of sense.

response 23 of 79:

Apr 2 01:10 UTC 2002

If we want to right all wrongs, where do we start?  Where do we stop?  How
do we decide what's a "wrong?"

Perhaps we should analyze every African American's bloodline to determine if
they'd be better off if they had stayed in Africa.  Do we need to go to these
lengths to clarify what the effects are and aren't?  Do we need to keep
perpetuating this bullshit separation of races?

Honestly, white liberal defenses of reparations are everything that is wrong
with the liberal mindset today.  A vacuous promotion of "righting wrongs"
without any real thoughts to what will solve problems and improve life in the
HERE and NOW.  "Ooh, here's an idea, let's help those unfortunate black people
by giving reparations for the wrongs done to their ancestors."  Pat yourselves
on the back and drink some Green tea in a nice suburban cafe and congratulate
yourselves on "doing your part" to help the little guy, while the problems
not only continue but increase as the gulf that divides races in our society
grows.  

The causes for today's social problems are far, far too complex for anyone
who actually takes a good look at the situation to believe that piecemeal
bandages will solve anything. 

This is completely illogical.  C'mon, think about it for a second.  If African
Americans are entitled to reparations for actions that are generations in the
past, shouldn't Jews be entitled to reparations for the Holocaust?  Would we
bill the German government, since it was Germany (sort of) that murdered so
many?  Or perhaps we should bill American industries that did business with
the Nazi government, take money away from American companies and American
workers, some of whom are owed reparations for ancestors lost in the war that
stopped the holocaust.  Let's bill the auto companies, one of whose founders
was a noted anti-semite, and then let them bill France, who is greatly
indebted to them for their considerable material support to the war effort.

Better yet, let's just scrap this whole idea and let the races fight it out.
Everyone would get chance to extract a penalty from those who have wronged
them. It's certainly the best strategy in Israel, so why not here?